No, he clearly says people who work for insurance companies are no good, and independent plumbers are better.
Hot Water issue - Potterton Puma 80e
- Thread starter eddieed
- Start date
No, he clearly says people who work for insurance companies are no good, and independent plumbers are better.
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Yes, but he hasn't made the above assumption which you've implied.
In any case are you suggesting good engineers capable of getting their own punters are prepared to work on behalf of insurers for a fraction of their usual rate?
Or that engineers who can't find a customer to the point where they'll take insurance work for less than a street cleaner's wage are of comparable standing?
The insurance firms overwhelming selection criteria is based on the cheapest price. In any walk of life that tends to result in lesser quality.
Whats difficult to understand about what he wrote? "an independent needs to be a bit better" and "no experienced engineer will work for them" as i said before....... b*llocks
That may be. But I don't know any such engineers that work for the low premium insurance firms. Aware there are those who sub for BG, D&G and other established cover providers but not the new £3 a month types.
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The one that is mentioned in the post is Npower (which I had the worst 5 years working with) which is not a cheap policy. I understand that some insurance policy's are cheap and nasty, but you can't tar all insurances (and the engineers) with same brush. I'm sure there are very experienced and skilled engineers in some of these companies.
So the latest news is that they are not sending another engineer as they said they would. The Heat Exchanger is the issues and thats it, they believe that diagnosis is acceptable and as it is uneconomical to repair then it is replacement - doesn't matter what I say. I will probably get them to quote, they use independents anyway for install and I get £450 off. With some other quotes I may be able to get a price match and then the £450 off at least I may save some money.
I have also phoned a couple of local engineers - waiting for one to get back to me.
I explained to the other and gave him the details and he said it was likely the heat exchanger before anything else. I explained my thoughts to him and comments on here, and he said he would be honest with me and that he wasn't keen to work on a boiler that was so old as could keep throwing money at it never to fix it. Fair enough, so he is coming to quote for a new install this PM. I think this may be a common theme!
I just want to thank everyone for their help. Whilst the situation is not the best the knowledge on here has really helped. I will be complaining to nPower anyway - my biggest bugbear with them being that they cannot tell me what diagnosis process they have been through to come to the conclusion they have thats what is annoying me the most! I also believe that they have left the boiler in a dangerous situation as I removed a wooden slat yesterday in order to fill the water softner with salt and the cover fell off the boiler!
I have also phoned a couple of local engineers - waiting for one to get back to me.
I explained to the other and gave him the details and he said it was likely the heat exchanger before anything else. I explained my thoughts to him and comments on here, and he said he would be honest with me and that he wasn't keen to work on a boiler that was so old as could keep throwing money at it never to fix it. Fair enough, so he is coming to quote for a new install this PM. I think this may be a common theme!
I just want to thank everyone for their help. Whilst the situation is not the best the knowledge on here has really helped. I will be complaining to nPower anyway - my biggest bugbear with them being that they cannot tell me what diagnosis process they have been through to come to the conclusion they have thats what is annoying me the most! I also believe that they have left the boiler in a dangerous situation as I removed a wooden slat yesterday in order to fill the water softner with salt and the cover fell off the boiler!
You said you are in Reading. East or West? can you add Reading to your profile?
The water in Reading is quite hard but if boiler supplied from softener then that should not be the problem if you keep your unit properly regenerated.
I have done several repairs in Reading but would first suggest "Mike the Boiler Man". He is a little selective about which models he works on and although he will go anywhere, but charges accordingly, he is reluctant to go to West Reading and several times I have been there from London to do repairs!
Unfortunately, randomly selecting from Yell etc. will mainly get people who want to replace your boiler for £1500-£2000.
None of the experienced engineers here think the heat exchanger is likely to be the cause or that the obvious culprits have even been checked.
NPower have had your money! There is no incentive to repair your boiler. Most here do not think that any experienced engineers would even work for those companies.
Very unfortunately even if you did have it repaired by an independent it would be an uphill struggle to even get that cost back form NPower.
You seem to be too easily persuaded to have the boiler replaced when it is very likely that it can be easily repaired.
NPower were mentioned as having very poor response to complaints on BBC You and Yours yesterday. Their customer service director, Gareth Pickles, will not talk to their customers at all. But he is on LinkedIn and anyone registered there can send him a message. He is also on Twitter too.
To repeat, I consider your boiler is totally repairable! Even if it was the heat exchanger they are often available second hand.
Tony
The water in Reading is quite hard but if boiler supplied from softener then that should not be the problem if you keep your unit properly regenerated.
I have done several repairs in Reading but would first suggest "Mike the Boiler Man". He is a little selective about which models he works on and although he will go anywhere, but charges accordingly, he is reluctant to go to West Reading and several times I have been there from London to do repairs!
Unfortunately, randomly selecting from Yell etc. will mainly get people who want to replace your boiler for £1500-£2000.
None of the experienced engineers here think the heat exchanger is likely to be the cause or that the obvious culprits have even been checked.
NPower have had your money! There is no incentive to repair your boiler. Most here do not think that any experienced engineers would even work for those companies.
Very unfortunately even if you did have it repaired by an independent it would be an uphill struggle to even get that cost back form NPower.
You seem to be too easily persuaded to have the boiler replaced when it is very likely that it can be easily repaired.
NPower were mentioned as having very poor response to complaints on BBC You and Yours yesterday. Their customer service director, Gareth Pickles, will not talk to their customers at all. But he is on LinkedIn and anyone registered there can send him a message. He is also on Twitter too.
To repeat, I consider your boiler is totally repairable! Even if it was the heat exchanger they are often available second hand.
Tony
I don't want to replace the boiler at all. I am more than happy to spend money on it given that I wont be living in the house in a year but don't want to throw good money after bad.
I have stated before in the thread that I am in Reading, but we also have a water softner - again old so may be slightly inefficent. I also stated that the existing heat exchanger is about 6 or 7 years old and was replaced previously because it was leaking.
I haven't randomly sellected from Yellow pages, my local residents association has a recomended traders list and I have selected from that. He doesn't want to fix it fine but it will give me an idea of a replacement cost should I "have" to go down that route.
I know it would be an uphil struggle to get any money back, however I am happy to pay someone else and try. I will take it to the FSA (or its new equivelent) if I have to.
If anyone is local and can help me I would be very appreciative!
I have stated before in the thread that I am in Reading, but we also have a water softner - again old so may be slightly inefficent. I also stated that the existing heat exchanger is about 6 or 7 years old and was replaced previously because it was leaking.
I haven't randomly sellected from Yellow pages, my local residents association has a recomended traders list and I have selected from that. He doesn't want to fix it fine but it will give me an idea of a replacement cost should I "have" to go down that route.
I know it would be an uphil struggle to get any money back, however I am happy to pay someone else and try. I will take it to the FSA (or its new equivelent) if I have to.
If anyone is local and can help me I would be very appreciative!
Sorry, in reviewing older posts I saw some that I had not read on the first page.
Based on that new information, I edited my previous post, but my editing crossed with your last posting.
Please read that again and comment on what I have now said.
If you wanted me to come then you would need to email me directly and I would also ask to see photos of the boiler to ensure access is possible to the inlet parts. Also info on parking which can be a paid there.
But the obvious first solution is to contact Mike. He has several blogs online on his favourites particularly his niche of Gledhill thermal stores!
Tony Glazier
Based on that new information, I edited my previous post, but my editing crossed with your last posting.
Please read that again and comment on what I have now said.
If you wanted me to come then you would need to email me directly and I would also ask to see photos of the boiler to ensure access is possible to the inlet parts. Also info on parking which can be a paid there.
But the obvious first solution is to contact Mike. He has several blogs online on his favourites particularly his niche of Gledhill thermal stores!
Tony Glazier
Thanks Tony, really appreciate your help.
I am in North Reading - Actually in Emmer Green which is just above Caversham. No parking issue as we have a drive and on street is available outside anyway.
I have seen new Heat Exchangers on ebay for about £150 if it did need replacing.
I will contact Mike first - west Reading is an interesting place, understand why he doesn't want to go there sometimes!!
I am in North Reading - Actually in Emmer Green which is just above Caversham. No parking issue as we have a drive and on street is available outside anyway.
I have seen new Heat Exchangers on ebay for about £150 if it did need replacing.
I will contact Mike first - west Reading is an interesting place, understand why he doesn't want to go there sometimes!!
His argument is that it can take half an hour to get through the congestion in the town!
Of course I come on the motorway so avoid that. But I think its just the frustration of driving just five miles so slowly.
Try Mike, he is a nice fellow and quite knowledgeable on his favourites. Does not like Biasi boilers much and its mostly those that I have been to repair there. Usually caused by lime scale problems.
Even if your boiler was lime scaled it can still be chemically cleaned. Messy though.
Tony
Of course I come on the motorway so avoid that. But I think its just the frustration of driving just five miles so slowly.
Try Mike, he is a nice fellow and quite knowledgeable on his favourites. Does not like Biasi boilers much and its mostly those that I have been to repair there. Usually caused by lime scale problems.
Even if your boiler was lime scaled it can still be chemically cleaned. Messy though.
Tony
I have left Mike a message so hopefully he will come back to me. If not I will try again tomorrow because...
nPower have finally agreed to come back. When I told them about the cover not being put on properly and screws being left out of the boiler they called me back to say another engineer would come out on Thursday to recify this and also do some further investigations.
I also asked them what they had done (i.e. to see the job sheet summary) and as they couldn't tell me I think they suddenly realised they were on dodgy ground. Now don't get me wrong, I think we will end up in the same situation tomorrow but at least they have idetified they have done wrong!
So I am going to ask him to check the following tomorrow:
Blocked Filter on water inlet
Jammed hot start device
Cold inlet isolating valve - Check / remove the flow isolater pressed in the end as can block
Water saving valve
DHW Thermostat / Flow limiter not opening - MOST LIKELY
Now the only thing I know for certain they have done is changed a thermostat. I don't know which one, is it possible that this could be any of the above items - they changed both the hot water and the ch ones, they were very small as he had them in his pocket trouser pocket.
Is there anything I have missed. Once again thanks for all the help on here. it really is appreciated.
nPower have finally agreed to come back. When I told them about the cover not being put on properly and screws being left out of the boiler they called me back to say another engineer would come out on Thursday to recify this and also do some further investigations.
I also asked them what they had done (i.e. to see the job sheet summary) and as they couldn't tell me I think they suddenly realised they were on dodgy ground. Now don't get me wrong, I think we will end up in the same situation tomorrow but at least they have idetified they have done wrong!
So I am going to ask him to check the following tomorrow:
Blocked Filter on water inlet
Jammed hot start device
Cold inlet isolating valve - Check / remove the flow isolater pressed in the end as can block
Water saving valve
DHW Thermostat / Flow limiter not opening - MOST LIKELY
Now the only thing I know for certain they have done is changed a thermostat. I don't know which one, is it possible that this could be any of the above items - they changed both the hot water and the ch ones, they were very small as he had them in his pocket trouser pocket.
Is there anything I have missed. Once again thanks for all the help on here. it really is appreciated.
For a start take out the cold inlet isolating valve and pressed inside you may find a flow LIMITER.
Either remove the entire flow limiter or just take out the small O ring inside..they often swell up or the small waterways clog with debris.
Either remove the entire flow limiter or just take out the small O ring inside..they often swell up or the small waterways clog with debris.
Thanks Gasguru can this then just be put back in without the limiter in place or should it be replaced?
I am going to try and be at home tomorrow when the engineer comes so I can deal with him rather than leaving it to my wife, I may even sit with him to make sure he is doing stuff.
I am going to try and be at home tomorrow when the engineer comes so I can deal with him rather than leaving it to my wife, I may even sit with him to make sure he is doing stuff.
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