Ideal ICOS PCB - Worrying!

[OLLIE20]

The fuse in the fuse spur should be 3 amp not 13, and the on PCB is usually smaller than 3 amp. Ideal will tell you to fit 3 amp fuse to external fuse spur,i dont understand what you think is wrong, if a manufacturer states something tats how it is to be dne, in my opinion BG engineer was spot on

dude, the fuse in the spur doesnt need to be 3A. the fuse ion the spur needs to be less than or equal to the rated current for the cable, as per the wiring regulations, 17th edition. if that cable feeding the boiler was rated for 40A, then I could install i 32A fuse in that spur, for example.... like i said that would be dependant on the breaker upstream, whcih would never be that large, as it would need to be a 40A breaker.... which is over kill, but not wrong, or unsafe

you obvioulsy dont understand electrical systems...lets leave it at that[/quote

It may not NEED 2 be, but if this is what manufacturer states then it HAS 2 be, and in all honestly no i dont no much about electricity at work act and 17th addition as im a gas engineer and dont really need 2 go into such depth, you find me a gas engineers who would over ride MI's for elec at work or 17th edition, i think you may struggle, if something is wrote down in black and white in MI's i take it as gospel and so would a court of law

 

[gdallas]

I should say though, its not "unsafe" to fit the two 3A fuses in series like that (as per what you do), its just not good practice as they wont discriminate...just ask any spark about discrimination. you always want to catch the fault at the point of fault, to 3A fuses wont discrimnate and hence youcould end up damagaing a bit of equipment that would otherwise have been ok if the circuits were coordinating via carefully thoughtout CPD selections.

I dont want to fall out about this, im a lover not a fighter

but one last thing...

Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 is the LAW, the wiring regulations is not the law, but considered best practice, however the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 will always refer back to the 17th ed wiring regs.

just remember that spur fuse is not protecting the boiler, its protecting ther cable, and teh fuse can be any size so long as its less than or equal to the cable current rating.

 

[DP]

please tell me im not going insane!

Yes, you are lost the plot. Give the BG man a little space. He changed the 13 FOR 3 AMP because that is the way it is.

The fuse in the fused spur should be 3 amp. 5 and 13 amp fuses are the wrong size.

Temprise, what would you do if you had a 5amp fuse and not a 3 amp. Would you leave the 13 amp in place because you feel 5amp is not to be fitted? Better a 5 amp than 13 amp that will turn the PCB into a 3 bar fire.

I cant even begin to tell you both how wrong you are!

lets get this straight before we go any further. the spur , protects the cable feeding the boiler...not the boiler...

OK, the boiler wiring/ llom is rated at max say 5 amps. Cable between spur and boiler is rated at 16 amps. Fuse fitted is 13 amps. Fault develops in the boiler before the 2 amp fuse. So, what is going to start sending smoke signals- the 2 amp fuse that is beyond the failt, the 5 amp loom wiring or the 16 amp cable that powers the boiler (I say it was a t*t who wired the boiler with this heavy cable as often 2.5 T&E, that puts a strain on the PCB and often rips out the connectors on the board due to cable stiffness)

you obvioulsy dont understand electrical systems...lets leave it at that

Read what the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations say. The boiler manual is must be followed before your 17th or umpteenth regulations.

If you are not man enough to take advice from those that fit, fix and repair boilers for a living, then you may want to take this discussion elsewhere, e.g. Screwfix forum and see what they say.

 

[nickso]

OP you may well be right that the cable fitted between the fused spur and internal connections will be good for 16 amp, but what about the internal wiring? from the connection onwards? Will this wiring be able to cope with 16 amps?... The cable fitted may well be what the installer happened to have with him. Don't forget that there will be wiring inside the boiler that is not protected by the fuse on the PCB and so relies on protection from the fuse in the fused spur..

now thats probably the right answer.

I cant even begin to tell you both how wrong you are!

lets get this straight before we go any further. the spur , protects the cable feeding the boiler...not the boiler...

had forgotten about this thread.

i'm not trying to change the laws of electrickery or judge you on something i have limited knowledge on but the spur presumably protects as far as the pcb fuse. that means it also protects the small amount of wiring after the cable joins the boiler at the bottom. i really hope that no matter how ****e ideal boilers are, and apart from a small number of lunatics, we know they are ****e, ideal managed to do their sums correctly.

i still maintain that the pcb fuse is around 2A on this boiler and not 3A anyway.

 

[nickso]

also, seeing as this is an Icos do you not have zone valves and associated equipment? that will also be protected by the 3A fuse.

Icos is the system boiler isn't it? i always mistake the two.

 

[gas4you]

Icos can be a system boiler or open vent.

 

[DP]

As such spur fuse would need to feed the boiler AND control gear. So 3A at spur is sufficient. 13 amp if you are running a fire off the spur as well.

 

[kevplumb]

As such spur fuse would need to feed the boiler AND control gear. So 3A at spur is sufficient. 13 amp if you are running a fire off the spur as well.

with one of these boilers that might not be a bad idea DP

 

[Boilerman2]

As gdallas has already made it quite clear that he does not like me very much I feel that I can say that gdallas is a complete T**T!!

(Glad he is not a customer of mine BG are welcome to him and his kind what a Kn*b)

 

[OLLIE20]

[ stiffness)

you obvioulsy dont understand electrical systems...lets leave it at that

Read what the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations say. The boiler manual is must be followed before your 17th or umpteenth regulations.
If you are not man enough to take advice from those that fit, fix and repair boilers for a living, then you may want to take this discussion elsewhere, e.g. Screwfix forum and see what they say.[/quote]

JESUS, thank fook for that thought it may have just been me, following the MI's over the almighty elec at work regs

 

[gdallas]

As gdallas has already made it quite clear that he does not like me very much I feel that I can say that gdallas is a complete T**T!!

(Glad he is not a customer of mine BG are welcome to him and his kind what a Kn*b)

I dont dislike you, regadless of how much of a "tit" you think i am. Its not how i was brought up

Cheers

G

 

[gdallas]

can i be honest! i feel like alot of you Gas engineers have blinkers on. im a man that can admit it when im wrong..and i still could be! i was interested to hear someone mention those control valves, howver, the wiring diagram in mymanual shows the electrical supply feed the PCB, and everything feeds off that board. so i still fail to see why the spur needs to be 3A, and not less than or equal to the current rating of the cable...almost got me tho.

CAn we discuss this like adults, rather than calling each other tits etc.... i genuinley just want to get to the bottom of this...


Cheers

G

 

[Andygasman2010]

The fuse in the fuse spur should be 3 amp not 13, and the on PCB is usually smaller than 3 amp. Ideal will tell you to fit 3 amp fuse to external fuse spur,i dont understand what you think is wrong, if a manufacturer states something tats how it is to be dne, in my opinion BG engineer was spot on

dude, the fuse in the spur doesnt need to be 3A. the fuse ion the spur needs to be less than or equal to the rated current for the cable, as per the wiring regulations, 17th edition. if that cable feeding the boiler was rated for 40A, then I could install i 32A fuse in that spur, for example.... like i said that would be dependant on the breaker upstream, whcih would never be that large, as it would need to be a 40A breaker.... which is over kill, but not wrong, or unsafe

you obvioulsy dont understand electrical systems...lets leave it at that

Hi gdallas. I understand your point on this, it makes sence. But why do Ideal say it needs to have a 3A fuse? Pretty much all other manufacturers say this too.

It's a 3.15A fuse on the PCB so it's pretty much got two fuses of the same rating in series.

 

[gdallas]

The fuse in the fuse spur should be 3 amp not 13, and the on PCB is usually smaller than 3 amp. Ideal will tell you to fit 3 amp fuse to external fuse spur,i dont understand what you think is wrong, if a manufacturer states something tats how it is to be dne, in my opinion BG engineer was spot on

dude, the fuse in the spur doesnt need to be 3A. the fuse ion the spur needs to be less than or equal to the rated current for the cable, as per the wiring regulations, 17th edition. if that cable feeding the boiler was rated for 40A, then I could install i 32A fuse in that spur, for example.... like i said that would be dependant on the breaker upstream, whcih would never be that large, as it would need to be a 40A breaker.... which is over kill, but not wrong, or unsafe

you obvioulsy dont understand electrical systems...lets leave it at that

Hi gdallas. I understand your point on this, it makes sence. But why do Ideal say it needs to have a 3A fuse? Pretty much all other manufacturers say this too.

It's a 3.15A fuse on the PCB so it's pretty much got two fuses of the same rating in series.

Andygasman2010, TBH, i have no clue!! this makes no sense to me (from an electrical perspective) im going to phone IDEAL tomorrrow and ask their tech team about this...will report back what they say.

 

[Andygasman2010]

The fuse in the fuse spur should be 3 amp not 13, and the on PCB is usually smaller than 3 amp. Ideal will tell you to fit 3 amp fuse to external fuse spur,i dont understand what you think is wrong, if a manufacturer states something tats how it is to be dne, in my opinion BG engineer was spot on

dude, the fuse in the spur doesnt need to be 3A. the fuse ion the spur needs to be less than or equal to the rated current for the cable, as per the wiring regulations, 17th edition. if that cable feeding the boiler was rated for 40A, then I could install i 32A fuse in that spur, for example.... like i said that would be dependant on the breaker upstream, whcih would never be that large, as it would need to be a 40A breaker.... which is over kill, but not wrong, or unsafe

you obvioulsy dont understand electrical systems...lets leave it at that

Hi gdallas. I understand your point on this, it makes sence. But why do Ideal say it needs to have a 3A fuse? Pretty much all other manufacturers say this too.

It's a 3.15A fuse on the PCB so it's pretty much got two fuses of the same rating in series.

Andygasman2010, TBH, i have no clue!! this makes no sense to me (from an electrical perspective) im going to phone IDEAL tomorrrow and ask their tech team about this...will report back what they say.

Great! I'd like to know what they say so do post back. To be honest I can't imagine you'll get an answer, the guys that man tech help lines like that are engineers just like us guys.

By that I mean they only work to our level of knowledge and it's the guys that design the boilers from scratch that decide what fuse goes where!

I suspect it'll be some kinda "covering their arse" measure. There's alot of that in this trade