In or out
- Thread starter gasbanni
- Start date
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Cameron is completely unprincipled and will quickly agree to whatever is put before him, in order to get the referendum out of the way before the hordes start
for this year's summer invasion.
He's already prepared to drop his 4-year ban on benefits if EU agrees to apply the 'brake' if services and infrastructure become overburdened.
But it will be the EU that decides that, not the UK, and after many months the EU will decide that we are 'not overburdened.'
I don't know what Cameron is trying to achieve. He has already given us his notice of resignation, to take effect at the end of the current parliament.
I think offering a referendum was his vote-grabbing ploy, hoping that anti-Europeans (of which there are many in older conservative-leaning voters and Daily Mail readers) would put him back in power at the last election, and maybe he thought that if he offered to throw his toys out of the pram, all the other European countries would be willing to put their own interests aside in order to be kinder to the UK (IMO this is less probable). I haven't heard about him pressing for reforms to the CAP, which is not of much interest to most voters, although it is an expensive policy which had its place fifty years ago when Europe was short of food. In some other European countries it is more popular because it is used to prop up rural communities and small towns where lots of people have a smallholding or are small-scale producers with a local farmers co-operative.
Anti-Europeans in all countries often think "in my country we are honest, hard-working people who follow the rules, and all the foreigners are tax-evading crooks with their snouts in the trough" but it is no more true in the UK than it is in other countries. It's just a resentment born of xenophobia. Remember that Brits are foreigners to everyone else.
I think offering a referendum was his vote-grabbing ploy, hoping that anti-Europeans (of which there are many in older conservative-leaning voters and Daily Mail readers) would put him back in power at the last election, and maybe he thought that if he offered to throw his toys out of the pram, all the other European countries would be willing to put their own interests aside in order to be kinder to the UK (IMO this is less probable). I haven't heard about him pressing for reforms to the CAP, which is not of much interest to most voters, although it is an expensive policy which had its place fifty years ago when Europe was short of food. In some other European countries it is more popular because it is used to prop up rural communities and small towns where lots of people have a smallholding or are small-scale producers with a local farmers co-operative.
Anti-Europeans in all countries often think "in my country we are honest, hard-working people who follow the rules, and all the foreigners are tax-evading crooks with their snouts in the trough" but it is no more true in the UK than it is in other countries. It's just a resentment born of xenophobia. Remember that Brits are foreigners to everyone else.
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Not really.
Some of those of us who are interested in the debate see Cameron as an unprincipled opportunist, but I genuinely doubt that this would swing
the result.
My gut feeling is that the sheeple will just vote for the status quo regardless of Cameron's fawning, and that we 'remain', though I suspect it will be close
See how F&I's throw-away comment and WWT's acceptance of the perception has already led to the general acquiescence (at least on GD Forum) of a prejudiced view.
And you think your racist comment is funny?
It's no surprise, but presumably everybody realises that interest rates can be expected to rise, and the pound devalue, if UK exits? Like the Scots leaving the UK, it's a cost you have to believe is worth paying, and after some years of pain and effort would presumably stabilise.
It would be painful for people with big mortgages, so maybe it would dent house prices.
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-01-26/carney-warns-brexit-could-lead-to-interest-rate-rise/
Speaking of Scotland, I remember how the multinationals and Financial Services companies which are so important to the Scottish economy made preparations to move to England in the event of Scottish Independence.
The Gnats were very anxious to remain in the EU, so I suppose they will want to leave the RUK if UK leaves.
It would be painful for people with big mortgages, so maybe it would dent house prices.
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-01-26/carney-warns-brexit-could-lead-to-interest-rate-rise/
Speaking of Scotland, I remember how the multinationals and Financial Services companies which are so important to the Scottish economy made preparations to move to England in the event of Scottish Independence.
The Gnats were very anxious to remain in the EU, so I suppose they will want to leave the RUK if UK leaves.
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That's a huge worry. As far as the EU is concerned, everything which, in their terminology, becomes "an EU competency" (i.e. a power to regulate something is taken away from national government and given to the EU) is done so irrevocably. They simply do not accept that a power transferred to the EU can ever be negotiated back to a national government, because it's all about "harmonization" and that "ever closer union" - A federal superstate of Europe.
So in a few decades when the EU army has been built up substantially, another few treaties have been signed by successive puppet U.K. governments handing over almost all remianing powers to the EU, and Westminster really is nothing more than a rubber-stamping office for EU Directives (probably renamed EU Supreme Law or something by that time), then finally the country sees sense and wants out, is that giant EU superstate with its by-then even more power-crazed leaders even going to permit a withdrawal, even under onerous negotiating over terms?
How do you figure that? It's worked for a good many centuries without anarchy or revolution. Although confusion and general disgust of whatever government is in power comes with whatever bad government is in Westminster at the time, anyway.
Certainly, but that's the point. A new government can pass an act which amends or repeals an act made by a previous government.
Again, you are speaking as if you believe in alien goblins controlling the EU.
It is run by elected Members from the constituent countries, and representatives of the governments of the constituent countries.
You might find it comforting to think and speak as if you are fighting evil goblins, but it is not true.
It is also untrue to speak as if nothing can be changed or renegotiated.
And how many of those have there been?
The elected members of the European parliament may only vote on what's put before them. They may not submit new laws nor amendments to those which are proposed. And is it not the case that there are so many things on which to vote that "debate" in the European parliament often amounts to no more than a minute or two at the very most on each item?
Just because they are representatives from the government of a constituent country doesn't mean that they can't be all for a federal superstate of Europe with control of everything centralized in their power.
A cetain Herr Hitler was "only" chancellor of one particular national government at one time.....
Thousands. It happens all the time.
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