In or out

[DRM]

David Cameron said today that he loves this country, but I say that any prime minister that loves his country wouldn’t call a referendum that he thought could seriously damage the country and then spend god knows how much money on propaganda in an attempt to get the result he wanted.

I am not just talking about that very expensive pamphlet either.

To add insult to injury he used our taxpayers’ money to do it.

Mentioning war and allowing his chancellor to frighten people into voting their way.

We don’t know yet what the Chilcot Report will say about Tony Blair and his campaign of fear, but reckless Dave and reckless George should be locked up for what they have done to this country.

Having brought the country to its knees, some of the Remainers are still talking it down after the referendum in an endeavour to justify all the poison they gushed out in the lead up.

They must realise that the EU have listened to and are still listening to all this garbage, not to mention the effect it has had on the economy.

How is all this going to help our negotiators broker a half-decent exit deal?

If any of us had tried a fraction of what they have done, we would have been arrested and put on trial for treason.

 

[handyjack]

Ca-moron loves money. Like TB, nothing else.

 

[Doggit]

Interesting take on a second referendum. The writers made a reasonable assessment, but with the slant he's put on it, he was obviously a remain supporter.

A withdrawal notice under Article 50 doesn't need to be implemented immediately, and can be extended with the agreement of the other participants, but if there was a change of government that decided to revoke it, then we'd very likely be forced into joining the EURO, and I don't think any party would agree to that (apart from the SNP of course).

Boris is a crafty devil, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's hoping for a better offer from Brussels. Would he indefinitely delay issuing the withdrawal notice hoping for a better offer - more than likely - but he's got to become leader first, and as a lot of MP's wanted to Remain, would they vote for him.

They must realise that the EU have listened to and are still listening to all this garbage, not to mention the effect it has had on the economy.

There are those who are listening, but I suspect they'll do nothing as they know it'll open the floodgate from all the other dissatisfied countries.

Cameron and Osbourne should be ashamed of themselves for the lies they told, and the way they talked down the economy, but at least Cameron had the decency to resign - unlike Osbourne.

 

[JohnD]

hoping for a better offer from Brussels

What do you anticipate a better offer might contain, that would convince the outists?

Allowing UK to withdraw from the Free Movement agreement? Allowing the UK to have access to the single market while under no obligation to follow EU rules? Giving the UK membership and voting rights but no obligation to pay contributions?

Do you foresee the 27 agreeing to offer UK better terms than they get themselves?

Do you know anyone who might want to indefinitely extend the period of uncertainty and instability between deciding to leave, and finalising the divorce?

 

[Doggit]

God John, you've really got to let things go. You're so eager to jump down people throats that you don't read things properly. This is supposed to be a general discussion group, not a get at those who don't agree with you rant.

I did say that BORIS is very likely hoping for a better offer from Brussels. If Cameron could try and convince the electorate that he's secured a good set of reforms, why won't Boris try and do the same; they're all just politicians, and they just hold us in contempt.

 

[KenGMac]

OK Cameron ran all the way around Europe trying to get an agreement.

Does anyone recall with what high hopes / intentions Mr Cameron went all the way around Europe

To what effect?

Completely watered down proposals, why? because the Grandees of Europe simply did not believe that the UK would vote to walk??

Now the referendum has spoken, the EU Leaders are now having to run for cover, before some other EU Countries Wake up?

A day prior to the referendum the leader of the EU Commission John Claud Younkers [Sorry if I have a Typo here I do not speak any foreign language] just English and Scots?? this high profile Person stated clearly that there was No Chance of any re-negotiation, of ANYTHING at ALL?

Me thinks that the high flying grandees of the EU did not believe that they were incorrect, and that no one in their right mind would walk away from the EU after all look at how many Countries are clamoring to get in?? now we are walking away [sometime, not soon]

As for the SNP? and all that??

Is it just possible that the SNP played a "Long Game"??

If the SNPs research found out that England would react the way it has then the SNP by adopting a "Stay" attitude then move forward to Indy-Ref2?? Just a thought? major conspiracy theory???

During the Scottish Referendum, remember that?? all fear, doom , gloom, No access to the EU, No access to the £ Bank melt down, Et-All

Does that precursor to this more recent National referendum make any bells tinkle? even a wee bit??

Enjoy?

Ken

 

[JohnD]

a better offer from Brussels

So what do you suggest this fantasy offer could contain that would make the Outists change their minds?

 

[DRM]

I have just heard on the radio that Cameron has resigned because he did not want to do all the hard work involved with carrying out Brexit and then hand it on a plate to Boris.

This is typical of the man that was prepared to risk destroying the country in an effort to settle differences in his own political party.

Being the spin-doctor that he is, he has made a speech that has left many people feeling sorry for him when they should be feeling sorry for what he has done to the country.

I my opinion there is no difference between him and Tony Blair.

This woman is one of those that has continually talked down the country and continues to do so.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...nna-Soubry-EU-referendum-Brexit-result-voting

She is Cameron’s biggest fan and was talking yesterday about how her hero had put his head on the chopping block over Brexit, but what she should have said is that he has done the same to the country!

 

[Doggit]

Anna Soubry is typical of the type of politician that can sprout meaningless rubbish, and will do nothing whatsoever for the country. She doesn't care that any of her comments run the country down, as long as she can tell everyone how wrong they were. We will never become a strong economy with idiots like this.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

If we had never joined EU in the first place we would have been a strong economy even without, however the difference is what Europe now feels that we have betrayed them, consequently there will be repercussions, so things won't be easy in the coming months and years ahead and the wounds will take long time to heal before it is all forgotten, Europe still needs us and we need Europe. We still export tons of goods across Europe. We don't have this problem with America, and many of us don't require a visa to just hope on a plane and be welcomed in America, yes we have import and export control, and goods are subjected to custom levies, but we could equally remove this hurdle in our way and make for smooth trading.
Problems obviously arise when balance of trade gets out of hand.

Correct me if I am wrong, Greece wanted to leave as they were not prepared for the austerity measures imposed on them by EU and IMF, but they were blackmailed or bribed back into EU, or they would suffer many more years of struggle.

 

[Himaginn]

I think people are mixing up what Greece wanted. There was talk of them leaving the Euro, not the EU. They specifically wanted to stay in the EU.

What has happened in Greece in the period preceding this latest referendum is of deep concern, but it hasn’t led the Greek people to seek exit from the euro – let alone from the EU........
It’s not hard to see why Greece so values EU membership. ...............
The EU has made the biggest contribution to peace and democracy in Europe. The Greeks remember that and so should we.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ece-europe-britain-eurozone-crisis-eu-workers

 

[transam]

Yep The Greeks are due a further instalment on there bail out loan

Incidentally some 5 or 6 years ago ?? Greece was the biggest arms importer in the "World" ? most of which was sold to them by the germans

they have more battle tanks & heavy weapons that the British & French armed forces combined

Than fiddled the books to get into the Euro

 

[JohnD]

Incidentally some 5 or 6 years ago ?? Greece was the biggest arms importer in the "World" ? most of which was sold to them by the germans

they have more battle tanks & heavy weapons that the British & French armed forces combined

Are you thinking of the year Germany sold off its old reserve stocks of cold-war tanks and spares for scrap, with the runners going for near-scrap price to anybody who would take them?

Britain and France also scrapped a lot, which is why they now have hardly any left.

Mr Putin, however....

 

[transam]

No

germans sold them submarines In fact they purchased so much military hard ware they forgot that they did not have the personal to use it

Greece tax evasion was a national past time public employees retired in there early 40's on full pension

And than they cook the books to join the Euro & the krauts were complicit in it

 

[Brigadier]

I think people are mixing up what Greece wanted. There was talk of them leaving the Euro, not the EU. They specifically wanted to stay in the EU.

What has happened in Greece in the period preceding this latest referendum is of deep concern, but it hasn’t led the Greek people to seek exit from the euro – let alone from the EU........
It’s not hard to see why Greece so values EU membership. ...............
The EU has made the biggest contribution to peace and democracy in Europe. The Greeks remember that and so should we.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ece-europe-britain-eurozone-crisis-eu-workers

The Greeks "invented" democracy - the clue's in the word.