India and Pakistan Relations With The West

[albaPhenom]

With the response from the "International community" on the Invasion of Ukraine coming in from all sides, there's two countries have stuck out to me in their attitude and rhetoric towards the situation... India and Pakistan.

Firstly, both abstained in the recent UN vote.

Pakistan I was not surprised about as that countries is as thick as thieves with both China and Russia. In response to pressure to condemn Russia's actions, the Pakistani Prime Minister, Imran Khan had this to say.

India diplomatically maintains that sanctions are not the answer to the war but their media and political speakers take a far more aggressive anti-Western position.. this video made for a few laughs at the time but listen to the meat of what the host is telling who he thinks is the American commentator.

At COP26 in Glasgow I listened to very similar rhetoric from an Indian speaker... there's a common theme here where they perceive the West to be lecturing them, speaking down to them and telling them what to do.

Go on Indian Twitter and you will see this attitude is widespread and even more venomous than shown here.

Do you think this is representative of their general feelings towards the West and given that this is unlikely to change any time soon if it is, what should be the Wests future economic position with this part of the world as India becomes more of a manufacturing and economic force ala China.

I don't think it's something that should be ignored and I perceive a future enemy personally and in a global conflict I'm not exactly sure which side these two fall down on.

What say you?

And before anyone comes in with their banal boring hot takes trying to shut down conversation, no, it's got nothing to do with racism, animus towards South Asians or have any relevance to UK citizens of Indian/Pakistani heritage.

 

[ajohn]

The countries who have applied sanctions are mostly in the G7. Trust pointed out from memory that 149 countries in the sub NATO thingy supported the motion against Russia. What isn't clear is how many will apply sanctions. UK - we can stop using Russian gas and oil by the end of this year. Some countries can't. Steel, aluminium and fertiliser prices will increase. No one knows how much yet. Some countries economies may not be able to stand it so what do you think they will do?

The odd ball factor as well is that if all do apply full sanctions there will be a greater call for the same stuff from other sources.

 

[The Samaritan]

You are spot-on Re Pakistan.

Re India. They have a very, very long history of being sold arms to by the Russians when China and USA were arming Pakistan to teeth.
40/50 years ag the UK did sell Jaguar fighter jets to India.
Indian makes her own fighter jets but they have the latest SU Russian fighter jets and other weapons along with SAMs from the USSR.

India has been attacked by Pakistan several times as well as China and they ie china and India have an ongoing thing on the border China is a crook and lays claims to Indias land and Russia acts as a Broker

Sadly, the clown that leaders India is a right-wing extremist and like the majority of world leaders he puts himself first Just like the three countries mentioned her and inc the 4th/IK along with the USA and many others.

The people lose out as always.

Most Indians have always seen Russia as a friend and have done well not to vote in favour.

Ukraine has over 130 countries in its favour, Russia, North Korea and a couple of others in her favour and several that are neutral. Therefore if the world wanted to act it has more than enough support and does not need India to vote against it but China to do more but they take first place with several others for ****-stirring why else do they not give Putin a way out?? By of 'way out' I mean stop the war and IMO China has the leverage to do that.


Importantly, I have noted several on radio phone in calls and few times in the press trying to whip up hatred against Indian and ultimately her people here. We've had an @@ spouting we should boycott Russian shops and I cn only assume he/she mean those little corner shops and places to eat.

It's what is fed on the main station in every country that results in the majority siding with the news.

Look at it like this - when you hear about false flag attacks etc and accusations of one against the other as in any conflict, who do you believe. Me, I want the facts first to believe and was fooled into siding with our gov/the west/usa into the attacks re non-exisitant WMD and talk re missile landing in the uk inx mins. I learnt my lesson not to believe any politician as they will always raise their cause, fact.

Iraq and Libya are cesspits now thanks to the west and Afghanistan is a cesspit thanks to the USSR and the west.

We all know who funded the 9/11 attacks and the usa and the uk are best chums with them.

Putin is not as clever as he thinks he is he is evil rather than a clown/Brosi. With Putin he is so agressive and a big bully that his Intel/etc had to tell him what they felt he wanted to hear hence the ongoing invasion atm. Slowly many Russians are getting a true picture of the death and destruction on both sides and want nothing to do with it. I noted in TASS their comments since about 7 days ago hinting dissatisfaction was my take and a some reports stating Putins case as stated by Putin and Ukraine's claims . It is not easy for them to post the truth as it means possible death or jail and their family are bullied as well.


Thanks

 

[transam]

India and Pakistan are old adversaries

Khan does not run Pakistan he is just a figure head with no real power

as for that Indian bloke he is a total fruit cake

both countries have spent billions acquiring the bomb whilst millions of there population defecate in the open due to no sanitation


The majority of the populations of both countries are fruit cakes who’s lives are run by mad mullahs or in India’s case holy joe fruit cakes who in the west would be committed under the mental health act

 

[transam]

You are spot-on Re Pakistan.

Re India. They have a very, very long history of being sold arms to by the Russians when China and USA were arming Pakistan to teeth.
40/50 years ag the UK did sell Jaguar fighter jets to India.
Indian makes her own fighter jets but they have the latest SU Russian fighter jets and other weapons along with SAMs from the USSR.

India has been attacked by Pakistan several times as well as China and they ie china and India have an ongoing thing on the border China is a crook and lays claims to Indias land and Russia acts as a Broker

Sadly, the clown that leaders India is a right-wing extremist and like the majority of world leaders he puts himself first Just like the three countries mentioned her and inc the 4th/IK along with the USA and many others.

The people lose out as always.

Most Indians have always seen Russia as a friend and have done well not to vote in favour.

Ukraine has over 130 countries in its favour, Russia, North Korea and a couple of others in her favour and several that are neutral. Therefore if the world wanted to act it has more than enough support and does not need India to vote against it but China to do more but they take first place with several others for ****-stirring why else do they not give Putin a way out?? By of 'way out' I mean stop the war and IMO China has the leverage to do that.


Importantly, I have noted several on radio phone in calls and few times in the press trying to whip up hatred against Indian and ultimately her people here. We've had an @@ spouting we should boycott Russian shops and I cn only assume he/she mean those little corner shops and places to eat.

It's what is fed on the main station in every country that results in the majority siding with the news.

Look at it like this - when you hear about false flag attacks etc and accusations of one against the other as in any conflict, who do you believe. Me, I want the facts first to believe and was fooled into siding with our gov/the west/usa into the attacks re non-exisitant WMD and talk re missile landing in the uk inx mins. I learnt my lesson not to believe any politician as they will always raise their cause, fact.

Iraq and Libya are cesspits now thanks to the west and Afghanistan is a cesspit thanks to the USSR and the west.

We all know who funded the 9/11 attacks and the usa and the uk are best chums with them.

Putin is not as clever as he thinks he is he is evil rather than a clown/Brosi. With Putin he is so agressive and a big bully that his Intel/etc had to tell him what they felt he wanted to hear hence the ongoing invasion atm. Slowly many Russians are getting a true picture of the death and destruction on both sides and want nothing to do with it. I noted in TASS their comments since about 7 days ago hinting dissatisfaction was my take and a some reports stating Putins case as stated by Putin and Ukraine's claims . It is not easy for them to post the truth as it means possible death or jail and their family are bullied as well.


Thanks

Dunno why you don’t move to India ?

tis the one country in the world where you can be as mad as a March hare and be considered perfectly normal

revered in fact

so you would get on ok out there and fit well in

 

[ajohn]

The only things that spring up in India these days and for a long time are ethnic aspects which by the way is why Pakistan exists. Both sides have tested nice sized nukes that should go H bomb rather well.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

They despise much of what we stand for, however they'll still happily receive foreign aid from the west.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

They'll still happily receive foreign aid from the west.

...and the state handouts once they're over here.

 

[JohnD]

hatefilled andy.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Okay, the rational side of me knows that national/international relations and politics are often the reason why countries can't act quickly, if ever, on some things. However, there is a bit of me that sometimes wishes 'the west' would say 'So, you're not with us on this? Ok, we're pulling the financial aid we give you. When? As of today sir, today.'

Funny how many of these countries dislike (hate even) us and much of what we stand for. However the rich amongst them love to send their kids to UK Uni's, they love to buy property here, live here, partake in some of our western leisure activities.

Funny that ...

 

[diy_fun_uk]

hatefilled andy.

Maybe we need to get a little more hate-filled? Where has being an open democracy got us? We've become the 'bend over and f**k 'em up the as5' country of choice for much of the world's scum. We're their useful idiot.

EDIT: Ok, not hate-filled, but we need to stop being useful idiots left right and centre.

 

[Vinty]

There seems to be a sense of entitlement among Western nations that they should have the automatic support of countries in the devoloping world, even if by giving that support these countries would be acting against their own national interests.
It could be a hangover from colonial times.
It is understandable, that by abstaining from votes on the Ukranian conflict, these nations are protecting their countries from being dragged into conflicts which are perceived as essentially white Europeans killing other white Europeans, therefor nothing to do with the peoples of the devoloping world.

 

[The Samaritan]

...and the state handouts once they're over here.

Don't be a silly. The "handouts" you refer to have not be requested - would you look a gift horse in the mouth - that was a rhetorical question just in case you did not work it out.

The money was in the past given as 'goodwill' i think in order to enter trade deals etc, I may be wrong.

Btw, who is in that picture of yours as initially I thought it was that German bloke but closer look it is not. Thanks.

 

[albaPhenom]

There seems to be a sense of entitlement among Western nations that they should have the automatic support of countries in the devoloping world, even if by giving that support these countries would be acting against their own national interests.
It could be a hangover from colonial times.
It is understandable, that by abstaining from votes on the Ukranian conflict, these nations are protecting their countries from being dragged into conflicts which are perceived as essentially white Europeans killing other white Europeans, therefor nothing to do with the peoples of the devoloping world.

I think this is an entirely reasonable take and position for them, proximity provides familiarity and therefore more concern.

It's why if a shooting happens in Africa somewhere, it won't affect you as much as one happening in Paris, that won't affect you as much as one happening in your country and that won't affect you as much as if it happened in your own city.

My issue is the vitriol with which they are spitting.

We have been complacent in the west in turning China into our manufacturing facility and now find ourselves in a position where we're extremely exposed to a country which is increasingly hostile and getting increasingly powerful on the money we spend with them. I think we have to seriously consider our future supply chain, whether that's domestically or another BRICS nation... I'd suggest based on the rhetoric that this is not India or Pakistan.

 

[Vinty]

We have been complacent in the west in turning China into our manufacturing facility

The whole of our standard of living in the West is predicated on cheap labour in the devoloping world.
By all means buy British shoes made in Britain, or for that matter, smart phones, toys, shirts, televisions, ect.ect.but how much are you prepared to pay for them.
Indigenous cheap labour was plentiful in the UK until the working classes got the vote and universal education was introduced.
Since then the average worker is more clued up about how much their labour is worth, (ask any plumber and you wil see what i mean).