Is a sticker required on the Consumer Unit??

[Risteard]

Agreed - but twin red (or twin brown) never seems to have been used all that much.

I can tell you that in Ireland (both north (which comes under the remit of BS 7671) and south) twin red and twin brown are always used.

In fact in the north where BS 7671 applies many would likely be of the mistaken belief that it is required, and would look twice at correctly identified brown/blue with brown sleeving.

 

[Risteard]

The current edition of the Wiring Regulations only requires a warning label where a nominal voltage of 230V to Earth (Uo) is exceeded, and therefore is no longer required where multiple phases of a 400/230V system are present in an enclosure or between simultaneously accessible enclosures.

At work, labels appeared on the light switches "Danger 400V". I was asked by my (rather concerned) employers what it meant, as they thought 400V was going to every light! I was happy to explain that the lighting was spread across the three phases, so at the switches you will find 400v between the live feeds to a pair of adjacent switches, but it was only 230 phase to neutral. What is the purpose of these labels? Obviously some "Elf an Sayftee" person on a grossly inflated publicly-funded salary with Sierra Foxtrot Alpha better to do!

P.S. If the "Competent Person" who is working on the installation cannot work out for himself that the switches are fed from all three phases, perhaps he should consider a change of career to "Elf an Sayftee"

 

[333rocky333]

The current edition of the Wiring Regulations only requires a warning label where a nominal voltage of 230V to Earth (Uo) is exceeded, and therefore is no longer required where multiple phases of a 400/230V system are present in an enclosure or between simultaneously accessible enclosures.

What reg number is that

 

[Robin0577]

Just imagining what a nightmare working on car wiring would be if it were not colour coded...

No need to imagine, try working on a Citroen ('80s/'90s ones anyway). Around 3/4 of the wires are green, with tiny spot of coloured paint at the ends for identification. Absolute hell if you're trying to break into a loom "out of sight" as you would for an alarm or immobiliser.

 

[stillp]

it just struck me - most houses have at least one pendant light fitting, the flexible drop to which would have been in the 'new' colours long before the change of T & E colours, so perhaps we should have been using these stickers for many years!

Inadvertently I think you have argued against yourself and, conversely, confirmed the pointlessness of the said stickers.

It depends on what you mean by 'most' (51% to 99%) but accepting it will be at the higher end, it further renders the stickers pointless as 'nearly all' installations will require one and so, in reality, it should therefore be assumed that an installation will likely contain wiring to both sets of colours.

I'm not really arguing against myself, just reinforcing the point that it is now the absence of such a sticker could create a risk that can only be reduced by people learning to disregard the colour of insulation.

 

[ebee]

I`ve seen twin browns where the browns are different shades .
Never seen different shades on twin red though! anybody?

Strange thing with three core - RYB used to get sleeved so Y sleeved R was SL & Blue left an another N colour rather than being sleeved Black as it should have been.

Nowadays both Brown & Blue sleeve is quite common whereas only Red and not Black was in the old days.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No need to imagine, try working on a Citroen ('80s/'90s ones anyway).

Ah - French car electrics - deep joy.

Citroën SM Design Brief

1. Great styling. ☺
2. Fabulous engine. ☺
3. Marvellous chassis. ☺
4. Rock solid electrics so that everything works properly. Oh dear.
   

 

[JohnW2]

The current edition of the Wiring Regulations only requires a warning label where a nominal voltage of 230V to Earth (Uo) is exceeded, and therefore is no longer required where multiple phases of a 400/230V system are present in an enclosure or between simultaneously accessible enclosures.

What reg number is that

514.10.1- in the BGB they changed 'exceeding 230V' to 'exceeding 230V to earth'.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Strange thing with three core - RYB used to get sleeved so Y sleeved R was SL & Blue left an another N colour rather than being sleeved Black as it should have been.

Because it was felt that the long-established use of blue for neutral in flex would be a good enough indicator.

How many RYB strappers have you seen with them all sleeved red?

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not really arguing against myself, just reinforcing the point that it is now the absence of such a sticker could create a risk that can only be reduced by people learning to disregard the colour of insulation.

I suspect you didn't really mean quite that. No-one has suggested that people should disregard the colour of insulation, merely that they need to understand that the same thing may be identified by two different colours in the installation. That's not really much different from (in another safety-critical field) understanding that the words 'paracetamol' and 'Panadol' (and even 'acetaminophen', if one has been exposed to the US) refer to the same active ingredient.

If red had changed to black, and black had changed to red there would obvious really be an issue (just as if 'paracetamol' changed to 'aspirin').

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

I can tell you that in Ireland (both north (which comes under the remit of BS 7671) and south) twin red and twin brown are always used.

That's interesting. Maybe it's just my limited exposure, but it does seem fairly uncommon over here.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

I'm not really arguing against myself, just reinforcing the point that it is now the absence of such a sticker could create a risk that can only be reduced by people learning to disregard the colour of insulation.

I suspect you didn't really mean quite that. No-one has suggested that people should disregard the colour of insulation, merely that they need to understand that the same thing may be identified by two different colours in the installation. That's not really much different from (in another safety-critical field) understanding that the words 'paracetamol' and 'Panadol' (and even 'acetaminophen', if one has been exposed to the US) refer to the same active ingredient.

If red had changed to black, and black had changed to red there would obvious really be an issue (just as if 'paracetamol' changed to 'aspirin').

Kind Regards, John.

Yes I did really mean that, and I am suggesting that people should disregard the colour of insulation (except under some specific circumstances). To assume that, say, a blue insulated wire is a neutral conductor is analogous to assuming the the tablets in the yellow and white package are paracetamol, because the last time I bought some paracetamol it came in a yellow and white package.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7119132

 

[stillp]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7119132

Don't believe a word they say - they can't even spell "colour"!

I'm aware that some capsules are colour-coded (or rather, the colour carries some meaning) which is why I deliberately referred to the colour of the package.

 

[EFLImpudence]

When you encounter a cu which does NOT have one of these stickers...

...do you immediately think...

..."Oh, good - no mixed colours to worry about" or...

..."Ah. probably does have mixed colours, sticker must be missing".


Also, what different approach do you use when the sticker is present than when absent?