Is a sticker required on the Consumer Unit??

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm aware that some capsules are colour-coded (or rather, the colour carries some meaning) which is why I deliberately referred to the colour of the package.

That wasn't the point I was making (although I did do the original search because I had a feeling that there was some sort of colour coding system for drug capsules).

When I read it I found this interesting:

College students ranked capsules for perceived strength based on capsule size, categorized capsules in terms of anticipated pharmacological effect based on color, and evaluated strength based on preparation form. Data showed nonchance distributions for nine capsule colors in anticipated action, with specific effects for four colors.

People instinctively respond to colour - might be good to have a coding system which matches that response as closely as possible.

 

[stillp]

People instinctively respond to colour - might be good to have a coding system which matches that response as closely as possible.

Not all people can distinguish colours. Might not be good to rely on a system of coding that is inaccessible to 90% of adult males.

The study is interesting, in that it proves people make assumptions about things that depend on the colour of those things. How can we best stop people making those assumptions when it can be dangerous to assume?

 

[stillp]

@JohnW2 - John, is there some registration system for drug capsules, to prevent two different drugs using the same colour capsules?

 

[JohnW2]

@JohnW2 - John, is there some registration system for drug capsules, to prevent two different drugs using the same colour capsules?

Not as such. It would be impossible given the very large number of medications and the relatively limited number of available capsule colours (at least, easily distinguishable capsule colours), even given that two-colour capsules are possible. However, many capsules (and tablets) having distinguishing marks other than colour.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

When I read it I found this interesting:

College students ranked capsules for perceived strength based on capsule size, categorized capsules in terms of anticipated pharmacological effect based on color, and evaluated strength based on preparation form. Data showed nonchance distributions for nine capsule colors in anticipated action, with specific effects for four colors.

There was a classic study published in the BMJ (IIRC back in the 70s) which dramatically illustrated how there were optimum colours for drugs used to treat different conditions - i.e. one colour resulted in greatest effect as a pain killer, another colour was best for anti-depressants etc. etc. A similar study showed, not surprisingly I suppose, that when patients had to pay for drugs (or even if they were just made aware of their cost), then there was a very strong tendency for more expensive ones to be more efficaciuous.

People instinctively respond to colour - might be good to have a coding system which matches that response as closely as possible.

It would certainly be desirable. Has this not been one of the criticisms over the years of the choice of brown insulation for live conductors - since the 'intuitive' perception of the general public could well associate brown with 'earth', (whereas red has a very well-established 'danger' connotation)?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes I did really mean that, and I am suggesting that people should disregard the colour of insulation (except under some specific circumstances). To assume that, say, a blue insulated wire is a neutral conductor is analogous to assuming the the tablets in the yellow and white package are paracetamol, because the last time I bought some paracetamol it came in a yellow and white package.

Interesting. Whilst it is obviously true, to some extent, that one should 'never assume', life would become very tedious for most of us if there were not established conventions - and it is very reasonable to have identifications which correspoind to those conventions. Sure, there is scope for errors, but at least the identification gives some guidance as to what was intended. I don't think many electricians would thank you for introducing a system in which all conductors had white insulation!

When getting into an unfamiliar car, I imagine that you will 'assume' that the rightmost pedal is the accelerator!

Your paracetamol analogy is not a very good one. For a start, in contrast with the wiring situation, there are no regulations dictating colours of packaging of drugs! That would be like suggesting that one knew that a particular electrical accessory was rated at 20A since the last one which came in the same colour packaging did!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Has this not been one of the criticisms over the years of the choice of brown insulation for live conductors - since the 'intuitive' perception of the general public could well associate brown with 'earth', (whereas red has a very well-established 'danger' connotation)?

No one would associate brown with earth, would they?

Well, the earth in most people's gardens is a predominantly brown colour.

And grey is a pretty neutral colour.

And black is the colour you'll go if you touch something live.


All makes perfect sense.

 

[stillp]

Yes I did really mean that, and I am suggesting that people should disregard the colour of insulation (except under some specific circumstances). To assume that, say, a blue insulated wire is a neutral conductor is analogous to assuming the the tablets in the yellow and white package are paracetamol, because the last time I bought some paracetamol it came in a yellow and white package.

Interesting. Whilst it is obviously true, to some extent, that one should 'never assume', life would become very tedious for most of us if there were not established conventions - and it is very reasonable to have identifications which correspoind to those conventions. Sure, there is scope for errors, but at least the identification gives some guidance as to what was intended. I don't think many electricians would thank you for introducing a system in which all conductors had white insulation!

When getting into an unfamiliar car, I imagine that you will 'assume' that the rightmost pedal is the accelerator!

Your paracetamol analogy is not a very good one. For a start, in contrast with the wiring situation, there are no regulations dictating colours of packaging of drugs! That would be like suggesting that one knew that a particular electrical accessory was rated at 20A since the last one which came in the same colour packaging did!

Kind Regards, John.

Yes, not many electricians would thank me, but I suspect they might be safer if the only systems with which they had to work had all conductors in the same colour, even if it was somewhat inconvenient.

Yes, I will automatically assume a car's rightmost pedal to be the accelerator, and I've only been wrong once! (A 1930s road roller!) What is more of a problem is the control stalks on the steering column; I've lost count of the times I've turned the wipers on to indicate a right turn! I've had a new VW for 3 weeks and I keep increasing the radio volume when I meant to increase the cruise control setting. Those are all mistakes born out of habit and 'muscle memory' though, there's nothing in a car that confuses me by it's colour.

The absence of regulations for the colour of drug packaging is not a bad analogy, since the result is that nobody is misled into believing that the colour has a meaning.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, not many electricians would thank me, but I suspect they might be safer if the only systems with which they had to work had all conductors in the same colour, even if it was somewhat inconvenient.

I seriously doubt that, overall, it would be safer. Sure, in the hands of the most competent electricians, it would avoid errors due to incorrect assumptions about conductors with incorrect insulation colour (which I suspect is extremely rare), but I'd be extremely surprised if that were not more than cancelled by the considerably increased scope for new, potentially dangerous, errors on the part of many electricians, and certainly many non-electricians.

The absence of regulations for the colour of drug packaging is not a bad analogy, since the result is that nobody is misled into believing that the colour has a meaning.

Ah, I didn't realise that you were proposing removal of all regulation of conductor identification colours. Sure, if it were a totally unregulated situation, with cables available in all colours of the rainbow, with a 'free fall all' situation as to how they were used (as per drug packaging), then it would become impossible to make any assumptions on the basis of cable insulation colours and everyone would be obliged to use some other means of identifying 'what was what' - but I don't think you seriously believe that would be a better situation, do you ?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

I don't think you seriously believe that would be a better situation, do you ?

Kind Regards, John.

Why not?

 

[JohnW2]

I don't think you seriously believe that would be a better situation, do you ?

Why not?

I know that I also sometimes play the role of Devil's Advocate, but I surely don't need to answer that question, do I?

If you actually are serious, how far do you feel that this 'de-regulation', and removal of 'indicators' which could conceivably give rise to false assumptions, should go? Should, for example, it be forbidden to label OPDs in CU's, on the basis that people would assume (very occasionally incorrectly) that the labels were correct?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've lost count of the times I've turned the wipers on to indicate a right turn!

Or washed your screen in anger at someone?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't think you seriously believe that would be a better situation, do you ?

Kind Regards, John.

Why not?

It would increase the time taken to do things, and therefore the cost of employing electricians, leading more people who shouldn't to DIY.

It would increase the complexity of work, and increase the need for testing, and we are already have the situation where people go ahead when they don't understand what they are fiddling with and when they have no test equipment.

It would, I'm sure, lead to unsafe methods of conductor identification, and unofficial tagging of conductors which could end up being confusing, misleading or wrong.

 

[stillp]

I've lost count of the times I've turned the wipers on to indicate a right turn!

Or washed your screen in anger at someone?

 

[stillp]

I don't think you seriously believe that would be a better situation, do you ?

Kind Regards, John.

Why not?

It would increase the time taken to do things, and therefore the cost of employing electricians, leading more people who shouldn't to DIY.

It would increase the complexity of work, and increase the need for testing, and we are already have the situation where people go ahead when they don't understand what they are fiddling with and when they have no test equipment.

It would, I'm sure, lead to unsafe methods of conductor identification, and unofficial tagging of conductors which could end up being confusing, misleading or wrong.

Agree with the increased complexity, but in many circumstances not by much, since people should already be checking continuity and polarity. The need for testing is already there, but is often ignored by the fiddlers.
Would it push incompetent people towards more DIY, or less? Could it be the case that they wouldn't have a clue where to start, so would not start fiddling before they'd learnt how much they didn't know? I'm not sure, and it doesn't matter anyway, since it's not going to happen. What is certain though is that in my world of machine control systems, professional people find themselves in dangerous situations because they thought they understood a colour code when really they didn't. When there is no colour code they have no option but to identify the conductors by some other means.