Exactly...you are completely right...going for the big companies is'nt always the best, the smaller practices are always better value for money imo....and i'm not a one man band either....
Is an architect ripping us off!
- Thread starter CJM
- Start date
Exactly...you are completely right...going for the big companies is'nt always the best, the smaller practices are always better value for money imo....and i'm not a one man band either....
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Another option to an Architect if you are having a building company do the work for you is an Architectural Technician. Especially for domestic extensions. The Technician will provide you with the design, planning and building regulations aspects of the project and will get structural calculations done on your behalf. The builder will run the project and contact the Technician with any queries.
this statement sounds familiar.
a good builder can deal with most domestic jobs, no need for the added expense of meddlesome architects.
What a quiet website this would be if there were more about eh!
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no need for the added expense of meddlesome architects.
I don't agree.
A builder will simply not be able to make the necessary decisions to ensure that things like colour schemes or landscaping make the necessary complimentary integration with the harmonic and organic displacement on site, and the new extension juxtaposed in the vernacular against the principle character of the existing monolithic masonry and its disposition and orientation in context of the scheme as a whole
We need Architects .... even if it is just to remind us that the lounge extension is more than just 15m2 of extra space for the settee.
no need for the added expense of meddlesome architects.
I don't agree.
A builder will simply not be able to make the necessary decisions to ensure that things like colour schemes or landscaping make the necessary complimentary integration with the harmonic and organic displacement on site, and the new extension juxtaposed in the vernacular against the principle character of the existing monolithic masonry and its disposition and orientation in context of the scheme as a whole
We need Architects .... even if it is just to remind us that the lounge extension is more than just 15m2 of extra space for the settee.
...and you haven't even mentioned the juxtaposition of light and what that means in real-time relative to the Suns' position in the sky and how it effects the living cell, while harmonising with both mood and ambiance....
no need for the added expense of meddlesome architects.
I don't agree.
A builder will simply not be able to make the necessary decisions to ensure that things like colour schemes or landscaping make the necessary complimentary integration with the harmonic and organic displacement on site, and the new extension juxtaposed in the vernacular against the principle character of the existing monolithic masonry and its disposition and orientation in context of the scheme as a whole
hmm so that will be why the clients im working for at the moment have paid 4 grand (i kid you not!) for a landscaping scheme that doesnt work, and we have come up with a more viable, practical solution. Architects in general know sod all about landscaping design. just have a look at the boring repetative schemes that most new builds have......there..... rant over
way to go big T!
I have engaged an architectural technician who has invoiced his services for conducting two customer meetings, one on site survey, preparing the existing plans, design and preparation of 'proposed plans, submission of drawings and application for planning permission and has billed in excess of 50 hours. There are additional charges for all expenses.
Is he taking so long because he is not RIBA qualified?
He is a one man band and our work is an extension of bungalow where we have one existing bedroom in the roof space and have a requirement for two bedrooms and more ground floor space. Does it make a difference if drawings are hand drawn as opposed to CAD?
I am checking in to see if people think this is excessive for the work described?
Is he taking so long because he is not RIBA qualified?
He is a one man band and our work is an extension of bungalow where we have one existing bedroom in the roof space and have a requirement for two bedrooms and more ground floor space. Does it make a difference if drawings are hand drawn as opposed to CAD?
I am checking in to see if people think this is excessive for the work described?
Sounds about right to me, I'd take a day to survey another day or 2 to draw up the existing another day or so to draw up proposed you were happy with, say another day faffing about meeting with you initially, writing a quote, doing the planning forms, copying the documents, travelling time. Tis like anything, you don't appreciate whats involved when you don't do it for a living. Being non-RIBA (only applies to architects anyway) will not make him slower but should make him cheaper. You are right to employ a technician rather than an architect for this project. Expect to pay for about a weeks work for a basic regs submission, expect to pay a bit more if you want those regs submission drawings to be able to provide you with an acurate quote from a few different builders. CAD can be more efficient than hand drawn. Really depends on the draughtsman.
Doesn’t sound unreasonable for the work he’s doing; as FMT says, it’s surprising where the time goes & you won’t appreciate the work involved unless you’ve ever been involved with this type of work. It took me nearly a month to prepare all the drawings, design statement & submissions for a major roof, bedroom, kitchen & utility room extensions we now have here but I kept changing my mind; & then there was the council planning meeting I had to attend due to local objections, they passed it though!I have engaged an architectural technician who has invoiced his services for conducting two customer meetings, one on site survey, preparing the existing plans, design and preparation of 'proposed plans, submission of drawings and application for planning permission and has billed in excess of 50 hours. There are additional charges for all expenses.
Nothing to do with it; you donlt need an architect for a simple extension or even a standard new build; it’s always the Technician that does all the drawings & donkey work anyway.Is he taking so long because he is not RIBA qualified?
CAD is very quick for producing standard drawings or several different schemes based around the same structure but for one offs, hand drawn is likely to be quicker; but I wonder how many are left now that would actually know how to use a pantograph drawing board & a pencil let alone be quick at it! I didn’t like CAD much as I found it needed a completely different mind set; I once went head to head with a CAD operator, me on a pantograph board to see who could produce a one off, plan & elevations drawing the quickest; I won. It was a long time ago but I don’t know if CAD has changed that much. I don’t do much these days but now use Visio on the PC.
In short no I don’t think so, as Shy says, it's the hourly rate that matters!
For a bungalow GF extension and conversion/addition to the loft ....
I'd probably spend 2 hours on site and 50% of that would be me just chit-chatting about anything
To draw them up would no more than a day for the existing and most of the proposed, but lets say 1 1/2 days.
Then they would be ready for client approval.
But, I like messing, so will spend perhaps another 1/2 day or so doing some 3D views and renderings.
The new planning application form will take probably an hour.
Now I don't charge hourly rates for drawings, its a fixed fee. And I don't charge extra for chatting on site, revisiting the site, moving things about on the drawing for the client, or doing some nice graphics which will make a bland extension look nice for planners and get the permission. And I know that most of the other local plan drawers charge much more for much less
But for a run of the mill proposal such as this bungalow, with some bog standard drawings I'd spend no more than two days - that's 16 hours. And thats me - I'm not particularly fast, I may get sidetracked (normally to this site) and I draw too much detail. So I would expect a technician who does this as his main job to do something like this in less time. And even less time if he has a template from a similar previous job. What will these two visits be ... 2/4 hours each? That comes to 24 hours tops
So IMO, 50 hours is way too much time, what ever the hourly rate. How long are the b/regs going to take?
You should have agreed fees at the start. Yes, some things may not be known, but the guy should know how long it will take him to do drawings to planning stage and should have given a very close approximation of how much time he will spend on the plans or how much the plans would cost to get to planning stage
I'd probably spend 2 hours on site and 50% of that would be me just chit-chatting about anything
To draw them up would no more than a day for the existing and most of the proposed, but lets say 1 1/2 days.
Then they would be ready for client approval.
But, I like messing, so will spend perhaps another 1/2 day or so doing some 3D views and renderings.
The new planning application form will take probably an hour.
Now I don't charge hourly rates for drawings, its a fixed fee. And I don't charge extra for chatting on site, revisiting the site, moving things about on the drawing for the client, or doing some nice graphics which will make a bland extension look nice for planners and get the permission. And I know that most of the other local plan drawers charge much more for much less
But for a run of the mill proposal such as this bungalow, with some bog standard drawings I'd spend no more than two days - that's 16 hours. And thats me - I'm not particularly fast, I may get sidetracked (normally to this site) and I draw too much detail. So I would expect a technician who does this as his main job to do something like this in less time. And even less time if he has a template from a similar previous job. What will these two visits be ... 2/4 hours each? That comes to 24 hours tops
So IMO, 50 hours is way too much time, what ever the hourly rate. How long are the b/regs going to take?
You should have agreed fees at the start. Yes, some things may not be known, but the guy should know how long it will take him to do drawings to planning stage and should have given a very close approximation of how much time he will spend on the plans or how much the plans would cost to get to planning stage
OK so it seems that now i have checked the paperwork again the time I referred to in my earlier posting does not cover:-
Production of Planning Drawings
Application for building regs
The fixed price for the above is a further £975.
The current invoice is for Survey and Design works only.
The drawings were prepared to date are both hand and CAD drawn.
Does it still sound reasonable?
Thanks
JB
Production of Planning Drawings
Application for building regs
The fixed price for the above is a further £975.
The current invoice is for Survey and Design works only.
The drawings were prepared to date are both hand and CAD drawn.
Does it still sound reasonable?
Thanks
JB
It is getting worse.
IMO, survey, design, both sets of drawings, both application forms, and both visits - basically everything to get them through planning and building regs (except engineers fees, statutory fees and any other third party fees) should be no more than the £975.
What is "design work" - surely that's the actual drawings isn't it?
Didn't you agree fees at the time this guy was commissioned?
How the drawings were produced does not make any difference to you, and does/should not affect how much you are charged. You may be charged for extra sheets, but that is it
IMO, survey, design, both sets of drawings, both application forms, and both visits - basically everything to get them through planning and building regs (except engineers fees, statutory fees and any other third party fees) should be no more than the £975.
What is "design work" - surely that's the actual drawings isn't it?
Didn't you agree fees at the time this guy was commissioned?
How the drawings were produced does not make any difference to you, and does/should not affect how much you are charged. You may be charged for extra sheets, but that is it
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