Is the writing on the wall for the UK union?

[Old Salt]

Kind of like a union of 30 nations?

What should we call it?

Oh here's a novel idea...

Why not call it the EU

NO, IMHO the problem with the EU is the unelected masters who want to rule. The commissioners, president and all the others with a finger in the pie with no come back, audited accounts or possibility of being thrown out by the electorate.

Common trading rules by all means but NOT a Federal state.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Which do you think will try to jump first, N.Ireland or Scotland?

Scotland

 

[Old Salt]

Kind of like a union of 30 nations?

What should we call it?

Oh here's a novel idea...

Why not call it the EU

NO, IMHO the problem with the EU is the unelected masters who want to rule. The commissioners, president and all the others with a finger in the pie with no come back, audited accounts or possibility of being thrown out by the electorate.

Common trading rules by all means but NOT a Federal state.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

How far would we push that? Are we ok to go up to deploying the army to quash a separatist movement?

Because as soon as you block and supress a democratic movement that really does enjoy strong support you amplify it. Just saying no you don't have the choice just drives more Scots to want to leave. Even if you don't agree that leaving is a good idea you can agree that having a referendum is your right.

So, if the UK government just saying no, we need to have a clear reason why, and know how hard we're willing to push to block it.

This is the thing, there appears to be growing momentum behind it, yes mainly driven by nationalists. Nicola is probably testing the waters by saying 'we'll hold it anyway' and as you say, the UK government has to be very careful how it handles that situation should it be pushed forward, otherwise there's a risk of strengthening not weakening the case for.

 

[crystal ball]

I wonder if she still wants rid of Faslane base and all the jobs it supports

 

[noseall]

Will the Shetlands not want independance and their oil??

You mean like Londoners and Durham?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Indeed...
Scotland and NI will be better off without all those 'little englanders'.
Scotland in the EU, and a united island of Ireland
Wales would also be better off if it cut it's shackles, but they don't have the balls!
And no doubt all those brexiteers who wish to see the break up of the EU will defend the UK 'union' in desperation!
'Stronger together' has a rather hypocritical hollow ring about it!

Not sure I agree with this. I did vote for leaving the EU, however I feel the UK is better for being four connected nations (for social and economic reasons) as oppose to four independent nations with relevant trade agreements etc in place. Can it work? Of course it can. I'm just not convinced the positives outweigh the negatives for making this change. As per my opening post though, I have a sense it is going to happen.

 

[IT Minion]

I want Scotland to leave the Union, I should qualify for citizenship and when they get round to doing passports there's a decent chance it'll have a sodding unicorn on it.

That level of absurdity is irresistible.

 

[sxturbo]

i deal with Scotland for work (mostly in Aberdeen as that's the hub for oil and gas) and everyone i speak to there hate jimmy and they don't want to break away as an independent.

Financially it doesn't make sense for Scotland break away https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...8-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year

The SNP state a reliance on the oil and gas industry, which is dying in the North sea due to costs, and with the advent of electric cars and new zero carbon goals, it is estimated there will only be a further 15 to 20 years of production.

I echo the point about wishing to be independent, and then giving that independence straight to the EU, where they wont really have much more power than they do currently, i also think the EU would question the economic viability of Scotland, with things the way they are at the moment i think the last thing they want is a another sap/leech on their resources.

realistically i think it would be very hard for scotland to be independent, look how difficult it has been and will continue to be for the UK leaving the EU and thats only really been the past 30 years of close integration, Scotland has a couple of hundred years,

nice bit of history lesson from the bbc, scotland once ruled england...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16649184

 

[diy_fun_uk]

i deal with Scotland for work (mostly in Aberdeen as that's the hub for oil and gas) and everyone i speak to there hate jimmy and they don't want to break away as an independent.

Financially it doesn't make sense for Scotland break away https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...8-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year

The SNP state a reliance on the oil and gas industry, which is dying in the North sea due to costs, and with the advent of electric cars and new zero carbon goals, it is estimated there will only be a further 15 to 20 years of production.

I echo the point about wishing to be independent, and then giving that independence straight to the EU, where they wont really have much more power than they do currently, i also think the EU would question the economic viability of Scotland, with things the way they are at the moment i think the last thing they want is a another sap/leech on their resources.

realistically i think it would be very hard for scotland to be independent, look how difficult it has been and will continue to be for the UK leaving the EU and thats only really been the past 30 years of close integration, Scotland has a couple of hundred years,

nice bit of history lesson from the bbc, scotland once ruled england...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16649184

This is what grates. Although all politicians from all parties do it, it annoys me when Nicola or other SNP senior politicians say things like 'we're speaking on behalf of the people of Scotland' or 'the people of Scotland have spoken.'

Eh no. You're speaking on behalf of those living in Scotland who are in favour of independence. You're not speaking for the other X%.

 

[sxturbo]

This is what grates. Although all politicians from all parties do it, it annoys me when Nicola or other SNP senior politicians say things like 'we're speaking on behalf of the people of Scotland' or 'the people of Scotland have spoken.'

Eh no. You're speaking on behalf of those living in Scotland who are in favour of independence. You're not speaking for the other X%.

scotlands biggest issue is the fact the other 2x parties just aren't good enough and the SNP have a monopoly, and in this monopoly they falsely claim this gives them their remit for independance.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

scotlands biggest issue is the fact the other 2x parties just aren't good enough and the SNP have a monopoly, and in this monopoly they falsely claim this gives them their remit for independance.

Nail on head. No effective or even semi-effective opposition.

 

[Doug99]

In the 2019 general election SNP achieved 45% vote share of a 68% turnout on a Remain/Independence ticket. That equates to SNP being supported by only 30% of those who were eligible to vote. If they decide to go ahead with an unofficial referendum, no court in the world would support SNP's argument for a formal referendum or independence with only 30% support.

 

[ellal]

Not sure I agree with this. I did vote for leaving the EU, however I feel the UK is better for being four connected nations (for social and economic reasons) as oppose to four independent nations with relevant trade agreements etc in place. Can it work? Of course it can. I'm just not convinced the positives outweigh the negatives for making this change. As per my opening post though, I have a sense it is going to happen.

Two of those nations voted to remain in the EU...

The two with the most sense of course!

But strange that you voted to leave, and yet you claim that you're 'just not convinced the positives outweigh the negatives for making this change' as regards the break up of the UK...

Care to break the brexiteer mould and tell us of any positives regarding the UK leaving the EU?

 

[transam]

IMO England would be better off with out Scotland

so I am in favour of Scottish independence

as soon as possible tbh