Israel under attack

[Notch7]

But an organisation can.

of course, terrorism can be committed by a lone person or a collective including a state

thatll give something for Himmie to twist himself inside out with.

 

[Roy Bloom]

But an organisation can.

Nevertheless, the terrorist label is usually reserved for when violence is perpetrated by a Muslim

https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5437&context=flr

 

[Roy Bloom]

people can be terrorists a country cannot

of course, terrorism can be committed by a lone person or a collective including a state

But the more permenanent lable of terrorists cannot be applied to a state. And conveniently Palestininians do not belong to a state.
Which is why I described it as a carefully crafted definition:

Exaxctly, the West has carefully constructed a definition that exludes the possibility of countries being designated as terrorist, despite their terrorist activity, while they can freely designate whatever orgainsation that disagrees with their polices, as terrorist.
And while Palestinians are denied a country. the lable can be easily assigned.

All carefully crafted, isn't it?

I hope you took the time to read one of the articles I presented, where it contained that carefully crafted definition.

There is, although disputed, a general consensus about several characteristicswhich define terrorism. Using these characteristics, terrorism can be defined as violence or threat of violence perpetrated by an organized non-state entity, commonly a subnational group,designed to evoke fear and intimidation in a target audience separate from the immediate victim,in order to further political goals, where the political dimension is normally a distinctive aspect(Hoffman, 2013; Horgan, 2014)

https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=communication_hontheses

So the label of terrorism can be applied to organisations such as Hamas, which is designed to sway public opinion,
Whereas, due to the carefuly crafted definition, the label cannot be applied to Israel, despite Israel committing acts of terrorism.
Israel can commit acts of terror without wearing the label of terrorists.

Now do yolu see the problem?

 

[Justin Passing]

I'm not reading 75 pages...
Israel is acting illegally now, no question
but Hamas will be prepared; they have huge underground facilities, so any normal sort of approach wouldn't flush them out.
I wouldn't be surprised if Israel used gas. Gaza City has a huge network of tunnels as well. They may have the tech to use a tracer gas which could be detected from above when it comes out of other entrances. But H could open them for civilian shelters.
Last time Israel went for the tunnels, Hamas said they only found 5% of them. No doubt an exagerration, but H has been digging for years - they'll be good at it.
This is Benji's Falklands moment to win support in elections.
Hezbollah has far greater resources that Hamas, which brings in Lebanon, Iran, and possibly Syria. A groundswell of support could hurt the Egyptian
anti 'Muslim Brotherhood' govt as well. MB support H.

Russia will be gleeful.
And the Chinese.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

of course, terrorism can be committed by a lone person or a collective including a state

thatll give something for Himmie to twist himself inside out with.

Was Germany Terrorists State and are Russia also a terrorist state?

 

[Notch7]

But the more permenanent lable of terrorists cannot be applied to a state

Yes it can

Which is why I described it as a carefully crafted definition

It’s a pathetic excuse from you to avoid admitting Hanas are terrorists


its really simple:

Hamas are terrorists
Israel is a terrorist state

but you can’t admit Hamas are terrorists, because you support what they do

 

[noseall]

Israel is a terrorist state

It is?

 

[Notch7]

Was Germany Terrorists State and are Russia also a terrorist state?

Of course

Russia is a terrorist state today, although really it’s the Putin regime.

Although states and countries aren’t really called terrorist as such

 

[Notch7]

It is?

Well certainly the State of Israel has engaged in state-sponsored terrorism

but Israel doesn’t really commit random, indiscriminate acts of terror, mostly it’s the army fighting in retaliation. I guess over the years state Israel has committed oppression rather than terror.

what Israel are doing at the moment is not terrorism, even if it’s not justified.

 

[Odds]

Any move by Israel to occupy Gaza would be a “big mistake,” US president Joe Biden has said, amid hopes that the enclave’s border with Egypt would open to allow aid in, as Israeli troops continued to prepare for a ground invasion.

In an interview with 60 Minutes on Sunday, Biden said he believes the Hamas militant group must be eliminated but there should be a path to a Palestinian state.

Gimme Shelter@the Grundiana

I can understand the urge for revenge but Israel must come to realise sending troops backed by overwhelming air power and tanks can only make things much worse. As soon as the world gets first hand accounts of burning children and blasted homes, Israel will be seen as the aggressor, despite being the victim of a terrible atrocity.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Well certainly the State of Israel has engaged in state-sponsored terrorism

but Israel doesn’t really commit random, indiscriminate acts of terror, mostly it’s the army fighting in retaliation. I guess over the years state Israel has committed oppression rather than terror.

what Israel are doing at the moment is not terrorism, even if it’s not justified.

I don't want women and children killed in relation with Gaza. But I can't see what Israel can do. They need revenge they need to try at least to free the hostages.

They are a minority amongst those around. Egypt and Jordan will turn on them is they see a week Israel

They do need to put up a front.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Any move by Israel to occupy Gaza would be a “big mistake,” US president Joe Biden has said, amid hopes that the enclave’s border with Egypt would open to allow aid in, as Israeli troops continued to prepare for a ground invasion.

In an interview with 60 Minutes on Sunday, Biden said he believes the Hamas militant group must be eliminated but there should be a path to a Palestinian state.

Gimme Shelter@the Grundiana

I can understand the urge for revenge but Israel must come to realise sending troops backed by overwhelming air power and tanks can only make things much worse. As soon as the world gets first hand accounts of burning children and blasted homes, Israel will be seen as the aggressor, despite being the victim of a terrible atrocity.

The problem I see is where is this safe state? Is Jordan, Egypt , as I don't think they want them.

 

[Odds]

No idea. I only work here, man.
Maybe they can look back in history when Canaan and the Kingdom of Judea were a thing. Split north-south, perhaps Jerusalem declared an open city. No matter which solution you prefer someone, somewhere will object and off we go again.

 

[Roy Bloom]

but you can’t admit Hamas are terrorists, because you support what they do

You are jumping to your conclusions and directing dishonest accusations at me.

The UN do not designate Hamas as a terrorist group. Do they support Hamas?
No they do not.
So stop being so pathetically and dishonestly silly.

As Israel reels from the deadliest terror attack in years by Hamas, the United Nations Security Council still does not recognize or sanction Hamas as a terror group — despite multiple other nations declaring it to be so.

UN still does not label, sanction Hamas as terror group despite murderous attacks

The U.N. Security Council still does not recognize or sanction Hamas as a terror group as it does with Al Qaeda and ISIS, despite U.S. pressure.

www.foxnews.com

That illustrates the political motivation for some states to designate Hamas as terrorists.

I suspect the reason is complex, maybe too complex for this forum, because some dishonest poster is bound to misinterpret what I'm about to present:
First of all there is no agreed international definition of "terrorism", and by extrapolation "terrorist".

Although the term is not subject to a universally agreed definition, terrorism can be broadly understood as a method of coercion that utilizes or threatens to utilize violence in order to spread fear and thereby attain political or ideological goals

https://www.unodc.org/documents/e4j/18-04932_CT_Mod_01_ebook_FINALpdf.pdf

[/URL]

That definition applies equally to Hamas and Israel.
I called the earlier definition which excludes states from the potential designation as 'carefully crafted' because that's what it was. Carefully crafted to exclude states from being designated as terrorists, and to mask the politically motivation behind the designating Hamas as terrorists.

it is often not possible to reach universal agreement, for instance, regarding the designation of “terrorist” groups. For similar reasons, since matters of “terrorist” motivations can be politically sensitive

https://www.unodc.org/documents/e4j/18-04932_CT_Mod_01_ebook_FINALpdf.pdf

[/URL]

According to the UN definition, that (terrorism) is exactly what Israel is now doing, threatening a ground invasion and thus threatening the population of Northern Gaza to evacuate or else. They have also isolated the whole of Gaza for food, fuel, water, medical supplies and power. This was in addition to decades of sanctions.

Then there is the complexity of military responses:
If it is a declared war, the response comes under the international rules of war, and civilian casualities should be avoided, and prisoners of war should be properly treated.
If however it is a limited response to an act of terrorism, then the rule of domestic law applies.
Israel conflates and confuses its response. And both internaional rules and domestic rules have been repeatedly ignored by Israel.


Secondly, there are four identiable reasons for "terrorist" actions. (I'm using the words "terrorist actions" simply for convenience)

... terrorist actors are motivated differentially through four goal-oriented strains: socialism, nationalism, religious extremism or exclusionism.

https://www.unodc.org/documents/e4j/18-04932_CT_Mod_01_ebook_FINALpdf.pdf

[/URL]

Hamas is clearly not a religious extremist organisation. it has much more a nationalist goal.

As a movement, it tends to promote the interests of a particular nation (as in a group of people)

Nationalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As such the UN does not designate Hamas (nor Hezbollah) as terrorists.

So stop your dishonest accusations and see the bigger picture.
That applies to the other dishonest posters making incorrect and baselss accusations.

 

[motorbiking]

Hamas are a designated terrorist group - if you publish anything to support them - you are committing a criminal offence, in the UK.