Israel..wouldn't we do the same?

[ellal]

This is the point ellal, I agree both sides aren't smelling of roses....this particular event however is due to a palestianian allied floatilla, breaking a bloackade that is put in place to reduce attacks on Israeli citizens.

But this blockade is in actual fact illegal - and therefore the actions of it's military in these murders are too...

It's part of a 'medieval' siege that is designed to keep Gazans in poverty, and when they fight back, it's used as an excuse to massacre again!

If Israel really wanted to protect it's citizens, it would look at the reasons for the continuing conflict at this point in time, instead of harping back 60+ years ago!

 

[skitzee2k]

Illegal according to who? Not the Israelis, the ones that actually are the target of the attacks that were happening which led t the blockade.

It is very easy for other nations to condemn security measures as over zealous when they themselves are not the ones being blown to smitherins.

What you seem to be suggesting is appeasement. Let them get on with their own agenda in the hope that it doesn't involve blowing them to hell.

I don't think I would be willing to take that risk, and i can't blame them for not wanting to either.

 

[ajstoneservices]

And given that there are also different factions on the palestinian side, you will also have noticed (but probably ignored) that groups such as fatah (also elected at times) have condemned attacks on Israeli civilians for some time...

And what has Hamas done to the Fatah movement?

Seems to me that many here wish Hitler's "final solution" had succeded.

 

[JMLanders]

Seems to me that many here wish Hitler's "final solution" had succeded.

Bit of a leap there

 

[ajstoneservices]

Really

 

[JMLanders]

Really

Yes. The debate is not about the systematic annihilation of the Jews.

 

[ellal]

Illegal according to who? Not the Israelis, the ones that actually are the target of the attacks that were happening which led t the blockade.

That's ok then, we'll just blockade who we like too for whatever reason we make up...let's see if it's LEGAL and accepted by the world community shall we..because the Gaza blockade isn't internationally recognised!

(BTW, you still havn't answered the INTERNATIONAL waters point - why not?)

What you seem to be suggesting is appeasement. Let them get on with their own agenda in the hope that it doesn't involve blowing them to hell.

What you advocate is appeasing a terrorist state - Israel !!

 

[ajstoneservices]

Really

Yes. The debate is not about the systematic annihilation of the Jews.

You've helped the debate move along from skitzee's opening question

Israel..wouldn't we do the same?

Not going in the direction you hope for?

 

[JMLanders]

Mightily confused here to be honest.

Are you suggesting that I or anyone else on this thread has been advocating a return to the holocaust?
If so, I'm struggling to see exactly where this is coming from.

 

[joinerjohn]

And Gaza doesn't allow terrorist acts to be committed from within it's borders then?
Firing rockets into Israel, isn't terrorism?
The Gaza blockade isn't recognised internationally? Then why is it recognised by the other country that it borders? Egypt??
PS Ellal, you may want to think about changing your username so it sounds slightly different from the Israeli national airline.

 

[ellal]

The Gaza blockade isn't recognised internationally? Then why is it recognised by the other country that it borders? Egypt??

Does the UN recognise it?

But funny you should say that..

BBC: Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened. The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007

Now if it is 'internationally recognised', then surely Egypt is now breaking that recognition?

Unfortunately, it is an arbitrary measure made on no legal basis...

 

[joinerjohn]

"Now if it is 'internationally recognised', then surely Egypt is now breaking that recognition?""

But the point remains,, Egypt have recognised it for years.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for your condemnation of rocket attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip.

 

[ajstoneservices]

This makes for interesting reading

CONVENTION ON THE HIGH SEAS

DONE AT GENEVA, ON 29 APRIL 1958


Article 8
1. Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag
State.
2. For the purposes of these articles, the term “warship” means a ship belonging to the naval forces of a
State and bearing the external marks distinguishing warships of its nationality, under the command of an officer
duly commissioned by the government and whose name appears in the Navy List, and manned by a crew who are
under regular naval discipline.

Article 15
Piracy consists of any of the following acts:
(1) Any illegal acts of violence, detention or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew
or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

To me that reads this wasnt, as some say, an act of piracy.

Taken from here http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/8_1_1958_high_seas.pdf

 

[JMLanders]

Bit confused by this from article 11:

3. No arrest or detention of the ship, even as a measure of investigation, shall be ordered by any
authorities other than those of the flag State.

I'm probably misreading it, but it seems to suggest that the Israeli ship had no legal right to arrest or detain that other ship

 

[ellal]

"Now if it is 'internationally recognised', then surely Egypt is now breaking that recognition?""

But the point remains,, Egypt have recognised it for years.

Sorry, Did you answer if it's recognised by the UN?...

Anyway, I'm still waiting for your condemnation of rocket attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip.

Oh yeah, you seem to have missed...

I havn't actually defended Hamas, other than to recognise they are democratically elected...

Now if that's not good enough for you, I'll explicitly say that the rocket attacks are unacceptable - But I've also tried to explain that those who are interested in solving this might just like to look at how both sides justify their actions instead of coming down on one side alone!

So now, maybe you might like to elicit a similar quick response from those who can't answer the point about INTERNATIONAL waters...

And respond yourself (as I've said) as to the legality of the blockade in the UN...