Why don't you just trust whatever the company you instructed says? You can't keep questioning everything everyone says. Everyone has a different opinion, but if someone is doing the work and you have selected them and done your pre selection checks, then you should be able to rely on them without constantly askng if they are doing this and that right.
Keeping wall up temporarily after beam installation
- Thread starter iwanttodiy
- Start date
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I did have confidence until this one guy pops along, says he does this stuff all the time and completely derails the plan.
I guess, worst case scenario I have an SE backed liability insurance, builders liability insurance and at least BCO checks and confirmations.
I guess, worst case scenario I have an SE backed liability insurance, builders liability insurance and at least BCO checks and confirmations.
Well whats the worst that could happen eh? 
Some builders like to put in a tension rod....or whatever its called, helps to stop cracking.
The builder might be right. It depends how much house there is above the steel.
I did a 6m opening last year on a project using strong boys. quite a few strong boys.
Needles are very invasive, especially where there is a bathroom above.....
Some builders like to put in a tension rod....or whatever its called, helps to stop cracking.
The builder might be right. It depends how much house there is above the steel.
I did a 6m opening last year on a project using strong boys. quite a few strong boys.
Needles are very invasive, especially where there is a bathroom above.....
That gives me some confidence that you did a similar sized opening as mine using strong boys. Much of my research and talking to people was related to mainly smaller than 6m openings.
Above the house is just a 6m stretch of 9” solid wall and a pitched roof. He wanted 5 or 6 steel needles to hold up the 6m wall. Whereas what I’ve been preparing for was 6 or 7 strong boys on the outside and 3 - 4 strong boys on the inside holding up the inside floor joists. Worst case scenario, one needle in the middle of the span to help reduce the overall span in 1/2, which coincidentally sits on top of a load bearing internal wall. Current contractor mentions that a pretty solid plan.
Also Strongboy technical support, they were not able to offer any case studies for a 6m opening on Strongboys alone, the largest they had done was a 4.5m - 5m opening
Above the house is just a 6m stretch of 9” solid wall and a pitched roof. He wanted 5 or 6 steel needles to hold up the 6m wall. Whereas what I’ve been preparing for was 6 or 7 strong boys on the outside and 3 - 4 strong boys on the inside holding up the inside floor joists. Worst case scenario, one needle in the middle of the span to help reduce the overall span in 1/2, which coincidentally sits on top of a load bearing internal wall. Current contractor mentions that a pretty solid plan.
Also Strongboy technical support, they were not able to offer any case studies for a 6m opening on Strongboys alone, the largest they had done was a 4.5m - 5m opening
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Nonsense, and putting 5/6 needles through the upstairs would be very disruptive. This is a 5.5m opening supported off 4 stongboys, so 5 strongboys would easily do a 6m opening.
IIRC, strong boys are designed for and only warranted for one leaf of walling.
They should be pushed right in so that the angled web is close to the wall face.
Pushing them in close makes it difficult to get the steel in, and more so on solid walls with supports both sides of the wall.
So some people don't tend to push the strong boys in as far as they should. They may well work, but if not it's not the strong boy's fault. This can lead to some slight buckling of the wall too, as the load slightly off vertical.
This is why when hiring strong boys, you tend to get bent ones. People then bang them back flat, so over time the steel weakens and bends more easily. So you need to be sure that the ones you hire are not the ones that are weakened so much and are being used not quite in far enough.
But it's not the case of needles or strong boys being suitable for a certain width opening. Either may well do. It's the number and positioning that matters.
They should be pushed right in so that the angled web is close to the wall face.
Pushing them in close makes it difficult to get the steel in, and more so on solid walls with supports both sides of the wall.
So some people don't tend to push the strong boys in as far as they should. They may well work, but if not it's not the strong boy's fault. This can lead to some slight buckling of the wall too, as the load slightly off vertical.
This is why when hiring strong boys, you tend to get bent ones. People then bang them back flat, so over time the steel weakens and bends more easily. So you need to be sure that the ones you hire are not the ones that are weakened so much and are being used not quite in far enough.
But it's not the case of needles or strong boys being suitable for a certain width opening. Either may well do. It's the number and positioning that matters.
Tony, what do you have above your RSJ? Is it supporting a 9” solid wall and roof?
Just spoke to my structural engineer about our agreed plan of using strong boys to hold up the wall. Based on his assumption of the load and a Strongboy taking 300-400kg of weight. he thinks a safe way to do this is, we need 4 strong boys per meter (24 for 6m opening), or 10 needles... I’m like, woah, we won’t have and gaps to even get a genie lift fork in....
Just spoke to my structural engineer about our agreed plan of using strong boys to hold up the wall. Based on his assumption of the load and a Strongboy taking 300-400kg of weight. he thinks a safe way to do this is, we need 4 strong boys per meter (24 for 6m opening), or 10 needles... I’m like, woah, we won’t have and gaps to even get a genie lift fork in....
It's your engineer your Principle Designer under CDM? Has he done a Risk Assessment and Method Statement for his "agreed" plan?
I suspect not and he would not want to risk his PI or his liberty if the HSE had reason to get involved.
I suspect not and he would not want to risk his PI or his liberty if the HSE had reason to get involved.
No, he’s just supplied all the designs with regards to specifying all the steels, connections, foundations etc.
I guess looking at the HSE, I don’t have a principle designer?
I guess looking at the HSE, I don’t have a principle designer?
He knows you wont do that, so whatever you use, if have any problems, he can say: you didnt do it to my specification.
Someone is fulfilling that role. Either way he is a designer under CDM and so should be supplying RA and MS to justify his way of lifting the steels and supporting the wall.
I get the feeling he’s playing liability management as with everyone else you generally pay for... so far his wage is by far the costliest per day.
Looking up PD, seems I could fit the profile, which means I own all the risk... but then I hired a building service to do all the works, and he is bringing in employees to do it, would he be the PD? My structural engineer doesn’t even come on site and essentially playing fire and forget. Probably a bad idea to use online sites to find people to do work
Looking up PD, seems I could fit the profile, which means I own all the risk... but then I hired a building service to do all the works, and he is bringing in employees to do it, would he be the PD? My structural engineer doesn’t even come on site and essentially playing fire and forget. Probably a bad idea to use online sites to find people to do work
It was a comventional cavity wall; the inner skin was held up by the floor joists, which in turn were held up by a plank and couple of props.
BTW, I think your engineer lacks confidence.
Possibly, or he is over cautious due to the lack of experience?
Well let’s see, I plan to double check with the guys on site and will probably be fitting the columns and beams in a weeks time hopefully. Let’s see how we go about it. We don’t plan to have the load on the acros for any more than a day, and as it’s twin PFCs we can quickly fit one between the wall and use that as an initial load nearer the fit the 2nd one.
I tend to value the practical over theory, but hey, hopefully have a house afterwards
Well let’s see, I plan to double check with the guys on site and will probably be fitting the columns and beams in a weeks time hopefully. Let’s see how we go about it. We don’t plan to have the load on the acros for any more than a day, and as it’s twin PFCs we can quickly fit one between the wall and use that as an initial load nearer the fit the 2nd one.
I tend to value the practical over theory, but hey, hopefully have a house afterwards
Your thorough preparation certainly derserves success Kenny. I look forward to hearing how it goes.
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