Klima ufh mat - am I being stupid here?

[ericmark]

All I can say is how my mother UFH has worked, fitted under sculptured tiles in her wet room. Idea was to dry the floor and make it warm under her foot, plus heat the room together with a towel rail.

On switch on it takes an hour to get even warm, there is wood below the heating mat then insulation so theory heat should go up. On turning on the shower the floor is cooled in seconds, and it takes another hour to warm up again, the sculptured tiles were also a mistake they hold the water so take longer to dry.

So from experience it does not heat the room even when left on 24/7 it is not enough to heat room it needs the heat from towel rail.
It takes two hours before you can walk on the floor and actually feel the floor is warm.
The thermostat was renewed many times, they don't seem to last long, and the pocket for the floor sensor had too sharp of a curve and the sensor stuck and broke off. The heat is so small I don't now bother with underfloor sensor it is simple to dry off floor after a shower, it is not used to heat the floor, the first one was damaged by builder and all tiles had to be removed, lucky builder used out of date tile cement so they came up easy.

It is really a white elephant, I will put it on after a shower to dry floor, but if honest it would be just as easy to use a mop. For floor to be warm for mother, I have to switch on as we go to bed so it is warm in the morning, and fan needs to be off and door closed.

Oh and yes used an insulation tester with 500 volt to test insulation plus RCD protection I would not want to walk on tiles with heaters underneath without using a proper insulation tester.

 

[Spherehopper]

I would not want to walk on tiles with heaters underneath without using a proper insulation tester.

Ceramic and porcelain commonly used as insulators

 

[bernardgreen]

Ceramic and porcelain commonly used as insulators

And carefully shaped with ridges and skirts so that a lot of the surface is shielded from water and hence current cannot flow across the surface where it is dry.

Wet bathroom tiles and the gaps between them may create a path for current from a damaged heating mat through moisture to a person's foot. Unlikely but not impossible.

 

[jj4091]

I don't see where that has been suggested.

It really would be better if you were to reply on the basis of posts you read, rather than just making stuff up.

I presumed you meant this sort of thing https://www.amazon.co.uk/Qianle-Non..._m_8qwxv4wuhydp6vm_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&s=shoes so i can't understand what all the fuss is about.

 

[ericmark]

Ceramic and porcelain commonly used as insulators

One has to be careful, I was once told rubber was an insulator so wearing Compo's wellies you should be OK, however the rubber in rubber boots has graphite in the rubber mix to prevent static build up, so rubber boots unless specials don't protect you, they are not insulators.

It is the same with other materials, my father-in-law had to test the tiles laid in an operation theatre to show they were connected to earth as it was important there was no static build up which could ignite gases.

As to if standard flooring tiles have anything in the mix to conduct electricity I could not say, however neither can most people, we have to consider likely they will, quarry tiles as so porous likely they will when wet conduct electricity, the tile would need to be made with a very high controlled mix and tested to be sure it would not conduct.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh how very adult of you

And what of you deliberately truncating what I wrote in a quote with the sole aim of rubbishing the entire post?

You know damn well that nobody would wear slippers in a bath or shower, any more than they would put a bathroom mat in there.

You know damn well that when going into the room to wash ones hands, or have a shave, or clean ones teeth etc there are perfectly reasonable alternatives to using electricity to make a tiled floor warm.

And yet you decided to take this:

Other options such as a warmer surface (e.g. wood) or using mats or wearing slippers are nicer.​

and quote only the last of the alternatives and then claim that it was logical that I was suggesting people wear slippers when having a bath or shower.

I stand by what I said, and I stand by my observation that your behaviour was pathetic.

 

[SimonH2]

It is the same with other materials, my father-in-law had to test the tiles laid in an operation theatre to show they were connected to earth as it was important there was no static build up which could ignite gases.

Indeed. Going OT ... AIUI propane is still used as an anaesthetic - though rarely because of it's explosive properties when mixed with oxygen as it would be when pumped into a patient There have been cases of patients killed by way of the flammable gas I their lungs getting ignited - sounds quite an unpleasant way to go, although at least they'd be unaware of it due to "being under" at the time.
That's one of the dangers when handling propane (and similar gasses). Not only is it heavier than air (so can pool in garage pits etc), it's an anaesthetic so as well as asphyxiation it can kill you by stopping your muscles working - if your lungs stop working, you don't last long.
And that is one of the reasons "sniffing lighter gas" (according to stuff I've seen on telly, popular with some youths in the same way as sniffing glue solvents) is as dangerous as it is.

And BAS - getting petulant isn't the way to have people take your rantings seriously, it just makes you look like one of those spoiled brats that screams whenever they don't get their own way.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And Simon - getting pathetic by pretending that an unreasonable option is what I logically proposed isn't the way to have people take your rantings seriously, it just makes you look like one of those spoiled brats that moves the goalposts in order to get their own way.

 

[JohnW2]

Going OT ... AIUI propane is still used as an anaesthetic - though rarely because of it's explosive properties when mixed with oxygen as it would be when pumped into a patient

No, at last not in the 'developed world'. Cyclopropane was, indeed, once used as an anaesthetic, but we stopped using it at least 30 or 40 years ago, at least partially because of its explosive properties. The same with (diethyl) ether.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the anaesthetic gases currently-used (at least, in the 'West'), most of which are fluorinated (or other halogenated) hydrocarbons or ethers, are explosive. The earthing of operating theatre floors you mentioned is probably the least of the problems, since diathermy is used almost universally during surgery, and that can produce visible 'sparks'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Father-in-law now over 90 so yes likely over 30 years ago. But point still remains, tiles can allow electric currents to flow through them, the heating cable is covered with an earthed braid, however there is often not accessible at the end of the cable to verify if the braid is intact, I have seen many braided cables where the outer insulation has been damaged, and you can see through the clear outer that the braid has rusted away, so proper testing with 500 volt does seem sensible.

 

[JohnW2]

But point still remains, tiles can allow electric currents to flow through them, the heating cable is covered with an earthed braid, however there is often not accessible at the end of the cable to verify if the braid is intact, I have seen many braided cables where the outer insulation has been damaged, and you can see through the clear outer that the braid has rusted away, so proper testing with 500 volt does seem sensible.

Certainly no argument with that, as I indicated back on page 1 ...

In my opinion, that is probably rather silly - there is no reason why the thinness of the wires should prevent a proper insulation resistance ('megger') test, whereas low voltage resistance measurements could fail to reveal a problem which could eventually cause your floor to have to be ripped up, not to mention possible dangers.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To the best of my knowledge, none of the anaesthetic gases currently-used (at least, in the 'West'), most of which are fluorinated (or other halogenated) hydrocarbons or ethers, are explosive.

But can be powerful oxidising agents.

 

[JohnW2]

But can be powerful oxidising agents.

Are you sure about that? Most modern ('Western') inhalation anaesthetics are fluranes (halogenated ethers) and, although I'm no chemist, I was not aware of them being oxidising agents. Free halogens are, of course, strong oxidising agents, but that is not what we are talking about.

For what it's worth, all the fluranes are described as "non-flammable" (does that count as 'non-combustible'? ).

The most commonly used gas in operating theatres is, of course, oxygen itself.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are you sure about that?

Nitrous oxide.

 

[JohnW2]

Nitrous oxide.

Nitrous oxide hardly qualifies as an anaesthetic and it certainly is not used in operating theatres (and has not been for very many decades).

It is used, mixed with oxygen, as an analgesic in labour wards and A&E departments, but that's about it within hospitals. When (100%) nitrous oxide was used as an 'anaesthetic' (primarily for very brief dental procedures - extractions), as I suffered as a child, the very brief period of unconsciousness resulted primarily from oxygen deprivation, not the nitrous oxide.

Kind Regards, John