Lady that loves Pipes:-) What's this? Anyone out their know?

[MJGas]

He may not need to drain down at all

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Ellen, I wouldn't buy or do anything until the fault has been properly diagnosed. Valve relies on electrical signals from elsewhere to operate, without running electrical tests to see what is happening then I wouldn't rush to condemn the valve just yet. Should it prove to be the valve at fault then often the head can be swapped over, leaving the brass body and water connections intact. If it is the 'Mid position' type valve, then usually when these fail it is the central heating that doesn't work, the valve's default position is open to hot water circuit.

If you have a woodburner connected to the HW system then that may throw a different light on matters completely!

 

[ash25]

Ellen, I wouldn't buy or do anything until the fault has been properly diagnosed. Valve relies on electrical signals from elsewhere to operate, without running electrical tests to see what is happening then I wouldn't rush to condemn the valve just yet. Should it prove to be the valve at fault then often the head can be swapped over, leaving the brass body and water connections intact. If it is the 'Mid position' type valve, then usually when these fail it is the central heating that doesn't work, the valve's default position is open to hot water circuit.

If you have a woodburner connected to the HW system then that may throw a different light on matters completely!

Hi Hugh, thank you for your reply. My wood burner is a little Morsoe Squirrel, bought in the days when I was rich (not that you need to know that, it's just I love it so much!) No it is totally independent of the central heating, ie not connected in any way, so that's a bonus. I have it on right now but boiling water in a kettle to wash up and have strip wash is not ideal situation.

I think you are right in the result having to be found by electrical testing. Something I won't touch. And, yes, I don't want to condemn the valve yet. My next thing I would like to try is to open that little bleed on the side of the tank that's coming out of the valve (just in case there is an air lock? Would it be safe to do this 1/4 turn (will a hurricane come out of it? Advice very gratefully received. Funny thing is if I leave the central heating on long enough the water tank does eventually heat but it takes hours! So do you agree that I need to get in British Gas .... pooooooooo big bucks! Thanx again ... Ellen.

 

[Burnerman]

Isn't that bleed valve the supposedly automatic type that you could retro fit to some radiators?
Renowned for leaking, those....I'd be inclined to leave it well alone.
Looking at that valve - is the screw that holds the top cap on hard up against the wall?
John

 

[aesmith]

Also, remember that the control signals to the valve and through the cylinder thermostat are mains voltage. Be careful what you touch if you're troubleshooting. If it were me I'd want to check (1) the programmer is correctly signalling for hot water, (2) the cylinder thermostat isn't stopping it.

I'm not familiar with three port valves, is there an easy way to check that the valve moves correctly for heating when the heating switches on/off?

Tony S

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Have you put the valve into the manual position as I suggested? Basically this 'locks' the valve open so the incoming hot water from the boiler can travel both ways out of the valve, around the radiators and into the hot water cylinder. If you find you have a tankful of hot water fairly quickly then I can assure you there is flow through the cylinder and it is not an air lock!

Woodburner is not connected to the heating system so that simplifies matters somewhat. If you feel rich then by all means call out BG, otherwise a local independant heating engineer is likely to be far cheaper. Seems either valve is sticking or there is a stray voltage from somewhere keeping it in CH position. I really would not touch that bleed valve, unlikely to get a hurricane out of it, but could get a reasonably strong jet of water, which, if the valve decides it wont shut off again (likely!) will soon make a mess.....

Is there a part number somewhere on the Honeywell valve? V4073 or similar?

 

[ash25]

Isn't that bleed valve the supposedly automatic type that you could retro fit to some radiators?
Renowned for leaking, those....I'd be inclined to leave it well alone.
Looking at that valve - is the screw that holds the top cap on hard up against the wall?
John

Hi John, i'm loving all this attention ...... woooo. Still the problem remains. What to do/not do. As Hugh rightly said, nothing really until I know what the problem is. As I said i'm getting full heating absolutely fine just no hot water! That ' bleed valve' branches off from the right side of the three-way port valve. It goes between the valve and the hot water cylinder. I am nervous about touching it I must admit, although it is very tempting and I am always painfully careful when I tackle little jobs like this. STILL I don't really know what happening and STILL it seems it could be a number of things. I wish I knew how to use my late hubbies electrical meter so I could test stuff. Anyway the old Honewell thermostat in the lounge seems to work okay. Tonight I will fire up the central heating again and leave it to reach temperature and see what happens if I leave it longer; just to see if hot water kicks in. So much to think about but if it saves me a few hundred pounds then it'll have been worth it in the end. Just knowing will be good and having super guys around the planet like you makes it all worthwhile.
THANK YOU LOVELY PEPE ..... Ellen

 

[ash25]

Also, remember that the control signals to the valve and through the cylinder thermostat are mains voltage. Be careful what you touch if you're troubleshooting. If it were me I'd want to check (1) the programmer is correctly signalling for hot water, (2) the cylinder thermostat isn't stopping it.

I'm not familiar with three port valves, is there an easy way to check that the valve moves correctly for heating when the heating switches on/off?

Tony S

Hi tony thank you for you reply. The programmer is quite old. I have alway only used it on manual anyway. It heats for central heating alone but when I push in only hot water the heating comes on instead and then sometimes the water might get through if I leave it long enough? I am going to do the checks you suggest here properly this evening and, I WILL BE VERY CAREFUL re the cylinder thermostat realising that it is live! But, if it is the thermostat on the tank then perhaps turning off the electical supply to the entire house and cleaning it may solve that area. Just think, you may have SAVED MY LIFE by reminding me that the tank thermo is live. You guys are soooooo nice.

 

[ash25]

Ellen, I wouldn't buy or do anything until the fault has been properly diagnosed. Valve relies on electrical signals from elsewhere to operate, without running electrical tests to see what is happening then I wouldn't rush to condemn the valve just yet. Should it prove to be the valve at fault then often the head can be swapped over, leaving the brass body and water connections intact. If it is the 'Mid position' type valve, then usually when these fail it is the central heating that doesn't work, the valve's default position is open to hot water circuit.

If you have a woodburner connected to the HW system then that may throw a different light on matters completely!

Hi Hugh, thank you for your reply. My wood burner is a little Morsoe Squirrel, bought in the days when I was rich (not that you need to know that, it's just I love it so much!) No it is totally independent of the central heating, ie not connected in any way, so that's a bonus. I have it on right now but boiling water in a kettle to wash up and have strip wash is not ideal situation.

I think you are right in the result having to be found by electrical testing. Something I won't touch. And, yes, I don't want to condemn the valve yet. My next thing I would like to try is to open that little bleed on the side of the tank that's coming out of the valve (just in case there is an air lock? Would it be safe to do this 1/4 turn (will a hurricane come out of it? Advice very gratefully received. Funny thing is if I leave the central heating on long enough the water tank does eventually heat but it takes hours! So do you agree that I need to get in British Gas .... pooooooooo big bucks! Thanx again ... Ellen.

Going to have a cosy evening with central heating on and when it has reached the temperature in lounge I will see if hot water comes on automatically. I am trying my best here and I am working at it mentally more than physically but that is what you are suggesting and I think, in the end, it will pay off. I can't wait to find out what is going on

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Hot water should work regardless of central heating settings if hot water is selected 'on' at the programmer. Please do not touch anything unless you are 100% confident, these work on mains electricity and can knock you off your feet (or worse) if you touch a live part!

 

[ash25]

Hot water should work regardless of central heating settings if hot water is selected 'on' at the programmer. Please do not touch anything unless you are 100% confident, these work on mains electricity and can knock you off your feet (or worse) if you touch a live part!

mmmmmm thanks so much Hugh, I promise to be extra careful. I am noting everything said and will no tamper in areas I feel are dangerous, like electrics. So annoying because hubby was a electrical engineer! You know, I will find the answer and when I do you guys will be the first to know. I promise. Still very interesting though, listing to you professionals suggestions - great stuff! Going to safely experiment with knobs and dials this evening and then may well hold up my bugle to Mr Corgi if no exclusive fault can be found

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Sounds stupid, but check obvious first! HW is selected and on at programmer and cylinder stat is calling for heat. These systems are basically a series of switches. During the selected 'on' periods, the programmer puts power through to cylinder stat. If demand for heat is sensed, cylinder stat then puts power through to valve motor. As valve motors open it activates a microswitch to give power to boiler and pump to make/move heated water. Should one 'switch' not operate, the system wont work.

 

[ash25]

Sounds stupid, but check obvious first! HW is selected and on at programmer and cylinder stat is calling for heat. These systems are basically a series of switches. During the selected 'on' periods, the programmer puts power through to cylinder stat. If demand for heat is sensed, cylinder stat then puts power through to valve motor. As valve motors open it activates a microswitch to give power to boiler and pump to make/move heated water. Should one 'switch' not operate, the system wont work.

Hi Hugh, I will try that very soon and report back. Thanx again

 

[ash25]

Sounds stupid, but check obvious first! HW is selected and on at programmer and cylinder stat is calling for heat. These systems are basically a series of switches. During the selected 'on' periods, the programmer puts power through to cylinder stat. If demand for heat is sensed, cylinder stat then puts power through to valve motor. As valve motors open it activates a microswitch to give power to boiler and pump to make/move heated water. Should one 'switch' not operate, the system wont work.

Hi Hugh, I will try that very soon and report back. Thanx again

Hello again Just turned on hot water only ran upstairs to put a close ear on things. PUMP is vibrating as normal, 3 way valve is vibrating, like it normally does, pipes soon get hot. No sign of hot water yet though. Pretty sure that central heating will come on; if I remember rightly I tried this before i'm just being ultra careful to note things more directly now. Will report back. You sir, look like you may solve the conundrum - you are getting HOT

 

[ash25]

He may not need to drain down at all

VERY good point! Still she does nothing