Lanlord contract gone pearshaped.

[Softus]

The law as it stands is the lasts contract signed wins it. however, which one was signed last if they were both on the same day. No time, just date stamped.

Well, no - it isn't that simple. Or rather, it is that simple, it's just different to what you think. There is no automatic supersession of contracts - each contract is viewed, in law, according to its own merits, or lack of them. The terms of a contract may well be varied, but only by the express agreement of all parties to the contract, but not by coercion or subterfuge.

Be aware though, that a contract may be created verbally and accepted by action - for example, if you call out a plumber, and he turns up on your doorstep and you let him in, then a contract has has been invited, offered, and accepted, all without putting pen to paper. You probably knew this, but perhaps didn't recognise it.

If there's a dispute over whether or not the parties to a particular written contract all intended to enter into it, notwithstanding the fact that they signed it, then a court has the jurisdiction to resolve the dispute by hearing evidence and ruling upon the facts according to that evidence. It is folly to prejudge what a court will rule, and any solicitor you consult will avoid making that prediction. BTW, some solicitors make good money out of passing the risk onto you, but by claiming that they take the risk - to wit the "no win / no fee" services. However, these solicitors are simply bookies - they spread the risk over many clients, and the fee you pay (when you win) reflects their view of the risk of losing all of the cases on their books.

All you need to do now is The Right Thing. And the right thing is to tell the truth, to act promptly, responsibly and reasonably at all time, and to keep keep a written record of conversations and actions. However, attempting to blur the truth about the order in which the two contracts were signed is neither necessary nor wise, and doing so creates the risk that you will lose credibility by not telling the whole truth. Oh what a tangled web we weave / When first we practice to deceive.

You could instruct a solicitor to write a letter, to attempt to bully your opponent into submission. Whether or not this works will be determined not just by the quality of the letter, but by the strength of his conviction that he's right (or by his lunacy), but it often does work, and could be money well spent - you don't have to continue paying the solicitor to represent you, after all...

 

[TheWife]

Once again Softus.....Thank you.

Its hard to remain objective, positive and realistic and do the right thing when in this situation. Going to a solicitor will make sure that I am being fair in resolving this issue without clouding the situation.

 

[Softus]

Yup - that's a very pragmatic description! Well done for presenting gratitude, and most graciously too, while managing to avoid incite more squabbling

I wish you all the luck in the world - I know how unsettling these disputes can be. I suspect there'd be a lot of forum members interested in seeing how this unfolds.

 

[TheWife]

I agree this will prove of interest to the community...I have some fight to sort this industry out but not enough to do this alone. Please mind your P&Q on this particular chat as I have sought government backing on this matter.

Yes Freddie, Handbags are out! But please do not chain yourself to downing streets railings on my account!

 

[TheWife]

Also sent a press release to the NLA about forging better alliances between the sectors.

 

[Bazdaa]

Here we go. How long before we're forced to be a member of association or body. As well as having to pay a fee for someone to tell me what I already know and do!

Wife, what happened to you is out of order. But please bear in mind, some of us landlords are happy doing what we have chosen to do, without intervention.

Yes there are some dodgy landlords out there, and maybe there should be something to pull them in line to make the TENANT feel safe. However I draw the line at tradesman pushing for some type of legislation so they can earn their fee. Maybe the answer is to change some of your business procedures!

Being ripped off is a risk to all of us.

 

[TheWife]

Here we go. How long before we're forced to be a member of association or body. As well as having to pay a fee for someone to tell me what I already know and do!

Wife, what happened to you is out of order. But please bear in mind, some of us landlords are happy doing what we have chosen to do, without intervention.

Yes there are some dodgy landlords out there, and maybe there should be something to pull them in line to make the TENANT feel safe. However I draw the line at tradesman pushing for some type of legislation so they can earn their fee. Maybe the answer is to change some of your business procedures!

Being ripped off is a risk to all of us.

Bazdaa - This is not about being told what to do by an association.
Associations are there for a reason.

To look after your interest.

I am part of an association and they dont lay down the law. Theyre there to support all. OK, some are better than others.

I am merely suggesting that Tradesmen will have confidence in YOU

Failing that a tradesman can provide a support service with feedback on their jobs with landlords to act as a register.....as discussed above, that way other tradesmen can check the register for those that are non associated. ......How does that sound? Would you consider that?

Maybe you have another constructive suggestion that could potentially alleviate the problems?

 

[Bazdaa]

Bazdaa - This is not about being told what to do by an association.
Associations are there for a reason.

As long as it's not compulsary, I dont really care. But this is how it starts!

To look after your interest.

You cannot be serious! If I do need someone to do that, then I will engage their services. So I guess this goes back the above.
Sounds a bit nanny state!

I am merely suggesting that Tradesmen will have confidence in YOU

As the saying goes. Frankly ma'am, I couldn't give a damn. I'm paying for the service, their not paying me!

Failing that a tradesman can provide a support service with feedback on their jobs with landlords to act as a register.....as discussed above, that way other tradesmen can check the register for those that are non associated. ......How does that sound? Would you consider that?

No! How would landlords be registered by property or name. If it's by property, then what happens when it's sold on? If name, then I guess people will start plucking names out of the sky.

This is not necessarily a slap in the face but, I don't hold much faith in someone supplying a reference on me, who cant even tell the difference between a contract and an invoice!

Maybe you have another constructive suggestion that could potentially alleviate the problems?

Yes read what you sign, before you sign it!

Yes you have been stitched up, but as I see it there are 2 issues here. 1) The contract, which I guess has taught you a costly lesson. 2) Non payment of services provided. This has more than likely been covered in the 6 pages. But it's simple. Do what the rest sometimes have to go, and take the guy to court, unless you don't have any proof of services supplied. Then you are stuck.

Sorry to say, and I don't want to dress you down. But you've allowed this happen to yourself, so deal with it, instead of trying to push something through, which SOME of us don't want.

P.S. I got stung for 3K once, for being too relaxed, considerate and kind! I made sure I LEARNT from that costly mistake.

 

[TheWife]

Bazdaa....clearly you're bitter about your experience.....and by airing your opinions it allows us to see it from both angles...thank you for that. I take on board what your saying but if enough tradesman decides to do something about landlords I dont think there would be much to stop the grapevine before more tradesman what to be protected too.

If you have nothing to hide then it shouldnt be a problem.

Im certainly not waiting to be stung £3K by a landlord before I do something about it...and if I think it can benefit other tradesmen then I will.

 

[Bazdaa]

Bazdaa....clearly you're bitter about your experience.....and by airing your opinions it allows us to see it from both angles...thank you for that. I take on board what your saying but if enough tradesman decides to do something about landlords I dont think there would be much to stop the grapevine before more tradesman what to be protected too.

Not bitter at all. As I believe you need to learn from your experiences, which I have.

As I previously said. If a tradesperson, does not want to do a job before because I'm not registered with an association, then thats up to them.

If you have nothing to hide then it shouldnt be a problem.

I hate this saying so much, it's unbelievable. This has got to be one of the biggest cop-outs around. When someone cannot find another reason to justify their argument.

Im certainly not waiting to be stung £3K by a landlord before I do something about it...and if I think it can benefit other tradesmen then I will.

I also should have said that it was from a tenant (I am the landlord). It might not have been 3K, but it was alot of money. BTW at least with a landlord you can walk away. With a tenant, you have to do something about it!

 

[TheWife]

OK....a few other landlords could be good for this chat too. I'll send a link to the associations maybe they can set some myths to rest about what they do.

 

[Bazdaa]

Sounds like a good idea. No harm in listening!

 

[Thermo]

I have to say i dont personally give a monkeys what trade or association any of my clients are in. I judge each one as i find them, get it all in writing, and make sure i cover my arse as much as i can. In short i look out for myself as no one else will.

 

[TheWife]

Hi Thermo.

I know, and that's how it has always been.

I think market research will only tell us the extent of the untold rogue issues and how hard it is to recover. For all those that are green round the ears....me included! some sort of support needs to happen. Whether thats a service through Service Management or Associations....the point is it should exist even if its for those that are just getting off on their feet.

 

[TheWife]

Im going to try and gather some statistic on this.