Latching or non latching RCD for Garage door opener?

[JohnW2]

I’m not aware of any type of non latching RCD other than an RCD socket ....

Well, there are certainly active FCUs (so that's probably what I assumed the OP probably had) but, like you, I have not seen a standalone active RCD.

... so I ass-u-me that the “waterproof RCD on the garage roof” is a weather resistant socket which the door opener plugs into.

Maybe. However, the main point I made still stands that, since the <whatever it is> is already fed by an FCU, the OP does not really need to 'replace [any] socket with a [second] FCU' - although, if it is a plug-in (and 'plug out' ) (rather than 'hard-wired') 'RCD', he may need to replace the RCD with a socket (or cut off the door mechanism's plug and wire it directly to the existing FCU).

Perhaps some pictures would be useful here.

Indeed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[blup]

Blup do you mean Mains Input cable by MI ?
& Are you suggesting the grids cable to the consumer unit can degrade ? How could that be proved?

I was picking up on Flameport’s point and suggesting that the supply cable might be mineral insulated which can degrade if exposed to water. That might cause the trip.

Blup

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Sounds as if your door installer has done a bit of a bodge.
Provided the entire setup (control box and motor) are fed through this RCD (so the door does not continue moving when power is restored) then get rid of the inline RCD and put a normal RCD or RCCB in the garage CU- this will properly protect cable and door

 

[bernardgreen]

I should say I'm not too concerned about the garage door operating when the mains supply is restored.

It should not start moving when power is restored. When the power supply is lost and then restored any command to move should be cancelled in the power up sequence in the controller's programming.

 

[effsweet]

Hi guys,

its helpful discussion, RFLighting has got it correct, the garage door controller is plugged into the weatherproof RCD box on the roof with a female two pin lead. When I've worked out how I'll post pictures. - 4 thumbnails added I think!

Just to remind people, I don't mind the door opener tripping out, but as it never trips out after resetting until another interruption of the supply to the property, I would prefer not to have to:

1 manually open the garage door (ladder or steps needed)
2 reset a ceiling mounted RCD on the garage roof (ladder & steps needed)

oldbutnotdead - I understand your logic but if the rcd was in the consumer unit & it tripped I would still have to action 1 & 2 above (as the CU is also in the garage) ?

I see more thoughts have been added, I'll look over them when I've checked these thumbnails are available for you all to see.
these comments are all helpful - keep em coming thank you - effsweet

 

[SUNRAY]

View attachment 226872 View attachment 226872 View attachment 226875 View attachment 226876 Hi guys,

its helpful discussion, RFLighting has got it correct, the garage door controller is plugged into the weatherproof RCD box on the roof with a female two pin lead. When I've worked out how I'll post pictures. - 4 thumbnails added I think!

Just to remind people, I don't mind the door opener tripping out, but as it never trips out after resetting until another interruption of the supply to the property, I would prefer not to have to:

1 manually open the garage door (ladder or steps needed)
2 reset a ceiling mounted RCD on the garage roof (ladder & steps needed)

oldbutnotdead - I understand your logic but if the rcd was in the consumer unit & it tripped I would still have to action 1 & 2 above (as the CU is also in the garage) ?

I see more thoughts have been added, I'll look over them when I've checked these thumbnails are available for you all to see.
these comments are all helpful - keep em coming thank you - effsweet

Lovely pictures thanks. I'm a little surprised to see type 2 and type C devices in a domestic installation, it makes me wonder if this is/was a commercial property.

Strictly speaking the reason the door opener requires RCD protection is that its socket was provided, other than that none of its specific installation is buried in the walls and RCD not required. However I see how damp the environment is and would advocate RCD just for that reason and additionally I'd prefer to see the double socket on the wall also RCD protected.

The easiest solution would be to replace the MCB with an RCBO and the ceiling mounted RCD socket with a socket. I suspect the cheapest option will be to swap the 2 sockets over and replace the FCU with a passive [latching] RCD FCU.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/eaton-memera-16a-30ma-sp-type-b-rcbo/911fx

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...I_Otoda2vmxLzk5mqWcaAr-5EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[JohnW2]

Strictly speaking the reason the door opener requires RCD protection is that its socket was provided, other than that none of its specific installation is buried in the walls and RCD not required. However I see how damp the environment is and would advocate RCD just for that reason and additionally I'd prefer to see the double socket on the wall also RCD protected.

Indeed. In terms of current regulations the requirement for RCD protection applies at least as much (see **) to the socket on the wall but, since 'regulations are not retrospective', they were only obliged to provide RCD protection for the 'new' socket (on the ceiling).

[** I imagine that, in terms of an EICR, some would say that the absence of RCD protection for the wall sockets would be a "C2" {"requiring urgent remedial action") because a socket in a garage would be likely to be used to power outdoor equipment ]

The easiest solution would be to replace the MCB with an RCBO and the ceiling mounted RCD socket with a socket.

Maybe - or even, as I previously implied, replace the RCD socket on the ceiling with a junction box. This approach would, of course, have the added advantage of RCD protecting the wall socket.

I suspect the cheapest option will be to swap the 2 sockets over and replace the FCU with a passive [latching] RCD FCU.

I'm not sure which sockets you're thinking of 'swapping', but would not the simplest solution (and one which would have been simpler in the first place) be ...
1... To replace the FCU next to the the wall sockets with a passive RCD FCU, and then just have a socket on the ceiling
OR, even simpler ...
2... Keep the non-RCD FCU next to the wall sockets and replace the RCD socket on the ceiling with a junction box (i.e. cutting off the plug currently in use).

However, your first suggestion is probvably the best, since it provides RCD protection for everything in the garage.

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Ahh, so the roller shutter is your only entrance.
Conventional RCDs/RCCBs don't disconnect on power fail and don't usually disconnect on power restore (exceptions-banks of power amplifiers). So 99 times out of 100 my suggestion would work (its how my roller shutter door is supplied)

 

[SUNRAY]

Indeed. In terms of current regulations the requirement for RCD protection applies at least as much (see **) to the socket on the wall but, since 'regulations are not retrospective', they were only obliged to provide RCD protection for the 'new' socket (on the ceiling).

[** I imagine that, in terms of an EICR, some would say that the absence of RCD protection for the wall sockets would be a "C2" {"requiring urgent remedial action") because a socket in a garage would be likely to be used to power outdoor equipment ]
Maybe - or even, as I previously implied, replace the RCD socket on the ceiling with a junction box. This approach would, of course, have the added advantage of RCD protecting the wall socket.
I'm not sure which sockets you're thinking of 'swapping',

I suspect the cheapest option will be to swap the RCD DSSO on the ceiling with the DSSO on the wall. and replace the FCU with a passive [latching] RCD FCU.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...I_Otoda2vmxLzk5mqWcaAr-5EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

This will effectivelybe the same as this;

but would not the simplest solution (and one which would have been simpler in the first place) be ...1... To replace the FCU next to the the wall sockets with a passive RCD FCU, and then just have a socket on the ceiling

except it avoids having to buy a socket and all garage sockets will be RCD protected for jut £16

OR, even simpler ...
2... Keep the non-RCD FCU next to the wall sockets and replace the RCD socket on the ceiling with a junction box (i.e. cutting off the plug currently in use).

My method reuses the current accesories saving money and gives added protection

However, your first suggestion is probably the best, since it provides RCD protection for everything in the garage.

Kind Regards, John

I think it's the tidyest solution but more than twice the cost of the quoted RCD.

 

[JohnW2]

<your 'cheapest option'> .... This will effectivelybe the same as this; ... <my suggestion> .... except it avoids having to buy a socket and all garage sockets will be RCD protected for jut £16

Yes, that's true (other than that, for my second suggestion, it would only be a JB, rather than a socket that had to be bought) - but I concede that not only would it mean that the 'wall' garage sockets were protected but that they would be protected by active RCDs - probably not such a bad idea if ('garage' or garden) tools were going to be plugged into it.

My method reuses the current accesories saving money and gives added protectionI think it's the tidyest solution but more than twice the cost of the quoted RCD.

Agreed.

Kind Regards, John