Leaking HW Cylinder

[BigJock2005]

Right chaps, now that the leaking has stopped I got in behind the tank and got a couple of photos.
It does seem indeed that instead of a blanking plug, someone has fitted a drain tap to the secondary return hole.
The water seems to have been running along the spout and then down between the tank and the insulation. It must have been going for some time based on the amount of calcium, but the leak only showed as of a day or two ago, so it's got worse rapidly.
By the way, I could turn the knurled brass ring by hand, about a half turn each way. I'm guessing that's not good either.

According to the technical literature (https://www.ribaproductselector.com/Docs/7/25407/external/COL2525407.pdf) this being a type 9 (1200 x 450 = 162 litres) then the secondary connection will be an EG1"
Now I think a G1" is a standard 1" BSP thread, but what the hell is a EG1" ??

I will try and remove it tomorrow, which could be easier said than done. But if I can get it out, I can go to plumb centre and get a blanking plug of the same size, some white tape and Bob's my uncle....

 

[BigJock2005]

Looks like the tank filled up again through the night. The drain hose was dripping heavily this morning (guess in my state of mind last night I didn't shut off the drain cock properly, what a moron) so when I opened the drain fully cock it poured water for about 10 minutes before stopping. When I opened the cold fill I could hear flow, which stopped when I closed it. Good news is I found the other stop for the heating system, so I know I've only isolated the tank. But I cannot figure out how water got back in there. Maybe just the pipes emptying back, although a lot of water for just that, or there's some other mucked up connection which is back-filling the tank. Anyway, I've left the cock fully open, hose down the drain, and I'll try removing this bloody thing now and see what it looks like.

 

[ianmcd]

This is what you have and before you plug it off make sure that it is not fitted in order to drain the Cylinder

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drain-co...TBZmnWy9lmRP2DT_350aAsrVEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[potterton678]

It's a simple job to replace that, if the access if ok.

 

[BigJock2005]

Hello everyone, just an update on what's happened. I had a look at that drain cock, and had a go at moving it. Not only could I not move it - although there was a lot of play on it as the gasket and copper moved about to the point I think I could have broken it - but it was clear that the tank underneath was in poor condition. The leak has been going for some time clearly, and got very much worse recently. The insulation is coming away all the way down the back, and to me it's clear the tank is done.

I found a local plumber through a recommendation and called him. Sent some pictures of the job and he gave me an estimate for a replacement tank. Amazingly, was able to do it day after the following. I ordered the same size and model RM cylinder from Screwfix as they had the unit in stock for next day delivery, and it was duly delivered to the house. Plumber turned up and got stuck in. All done by around 3pm and to our horror there was a leak from the heating coil inlet joint. He was pretty unhappy as he was leaving on holiday, but agreed it couldn't be left that way, so drained the system and set about re-fixing the joint.

At that point we realised it was actually the tank that was defective. The gaskets/seals on both penetrations were off-centre, and water was weeping out of the inlet penetration between the tank and the gasket. Now the tanks come like this, and are ready to have piping connected directly. He spent about 2 hours removing, cleaning and smoothing the nut and the gasket to try and get a seal. Re-fitted with some tape and mate, and screwed it down hard. The weeping stopped, and we got everything reconnected and filled. About 6 hours later no sign of any leaks, but clearly I don't trust this unit.

He'd never seen a leak on that part before, but his opinion of RM cylinders was... well, they're s**te. The system is good for now, but he's advised me to replace it with a better make as soon as I can.

Any views on this people? I don't trust the tank, and want to replace it. I also think someone owes me for that, as there's no way you could have discovered it until the tank was refilled at which point the water became visible. I've incurred a day's labour plus some materials fitting this defective crate of s**te...

Jock

 

[dilalio]

And your plumber had an extra 6hrs of work added to his day!

This is why us in the trade prefer products from trusted sources - but lemons still come along now and again, just less frequently and get sorted pronto when they do.

I'd be sending Screwfix a detailed email with photos and make sure you include your plumbers overtime costs, even if he didn't charge you and pass some of any compensation on to him.

And then get a joule cylinder.

 

[BigJock2005]

Yeah, we took pictures of the leaking gasket, which as I say should not need to be disturbed, should be sealed right out of the box ready for connection. So while he didn't ask for any extra cash I him paid 3 hours extra labour. Maybe I'm a mug but I thought his whole attitude and standard of work was excellent, and this wasn't his fault. I will undoubtedly use him again for the tank replacement. By the way - do you agree I need to replace the tank, or would you live with it unless some water appears? I don't think I can... it's bugging me, and always will!

Thanks for the tip on the cylinders dilalio. I do like the look of the Joule, but can't seem to find vented tanks, do they only do unvented, or am I missing something? Unfortunately on this street, the water pressure is not high enough to consider changing to a closed system, especially in a 3-story house, as mine is.

But yes, now my battle with Screwfix starts... Never had any issue with anything I've bought from them, but this faulty piece is going to cost me about £560.

 

[ianmcd]

well time and time again it is advised on here to let the installer supply the materials , yes there will be a markup but then it is their responsibility if the parts are faulty or incomplete

 

[BigJock2005]

well time and time again it is advised on here to let the installer supply the materials , yes there will be a markup but then it is their responsibility if the parts are faulty or incomplete

Well, that maybe a valid observation, but not a helpful comment. Because 1) not possible when it's boxing day and the plumber is on holiday and you need it the next day and the only place available is a supplier, and a reputable one at that, and 2) RM should package their products to withstand storage and transportation, instead of a thin cardboard box with some bubble wrap stuffed in it. Frankly my Christmas presents were packaged better.

But I'll try and remember that the next time my kitchen ceiling falls in.

 

[Bodd]

well time and time again it is advised on here to let the installer supply the materials , yes there will be a markup but then it is their responsibility if the parts are faulty or incomplete

Christmas is always an awkward time so Jock had to do what he had to do.
Sods law he got a dud.
But you are right. This is why I put 20% on materials in general as my insurance policy.


A good few years back I fitted a toilet from Wicks supplied by the customer.

2 or 3 call back because it was leaking.
Short and tall of it was that the cast had a fracture. I invoiced the customer for my time, for them to present to Wicks.
To their credit Wicks paid my time.

 

[dilalio]

To their credit Wicks paid my time.

And that's how it should be.
It might encourage distribution centres and couriers to take more care of the items in handling.
It really pi$$es me off - the amount of packaging that we have to deal with just so the warehouse goons can throw something around without damaging it! The other one that drives me insane is the shoebox on a ruddy great pallet delivery

 

[Bodd]

And that's how it should be.
It might encourage distribution centres and couriers to take more care of the items in handling.
It really pi$$es me off - the amount of packaging that we have to deal with just so the warehouse goons can throw something around without damaging it! The other one that drives me insane is the shoebox on a ruddy great pallet delivery

They should but you have to push them...
Another problem is we in the trade don't complain enough about faulty or inferior products

 

[potterton678]

. All done by around 3pm and to our horror there was a leak from the heating coil inlet joint. He was pretty unhappy as he was leaving on holiday, but agreed it couldn't be left that way, so drained the system and set about re-fixing the joint.

At that point we realised it was actually the tank that was defective. The gaskets/seals on both penetrations were off-centre, and water was weeping out of the inlet penetration between the tank and the gasket. Now the tanks come like this, and are ready to have piping connected directly. He spent about 2 hours removing, cleaning and smoothing the nut and the gasket to try and get a seal. Re-fitted with some tape and mate, and screwed it down hard. The weeping stopped, and we got everything reconnected and filled. About 6 hours later no sign of any leaks, but clearly I don't trust this unit.

He'd never seen a leak on that part before, but his opinion of RM cylinders was... well, they're s**te. The system is good for now, but he's advised me to replace it with a better make as soon as I can.

Any views on this people? I don't trust the tank, and want to replace it. I also think someone owes me for that, as there's no way you could have discovered it until the tank was refilled at which point the water became visible. I've incurred a day's labour plus some materials fitting this defective crate of s**te...

Jock

Or
Could it be the plumber just made a mistake in fitting it, and hence the leak. Just a thought.
And then blame the cylinder for being faulty. Surely, a good plumber would of checked the seals/gaskets BEFORE fitting the parts.
But hey-ho that's the way it goes. I don't think they like it if you order your own parts.

I would leave it for now and monitor it very closely.

 

[dilalio]

Surely, a good plumber would of checked the seals/gaskets BEFORE fitting the parts.

How?

 

[dilalio]

They should but you have to push them...
Another problem is we in the trade don't complain enough about faulty or inferior products

I've had a couple of bad pan moulding leaks similar to yours and they were from my usual supplier and good brand name (Vitra). Wall hung ones at that! Nearly ended up in a thousand pieces when I found the inner skin was badly formed... After refitting it several times and then having to come back when the replacement arrived