Let's NOT give £350m extra each week to the NHS! A better idea....

[Ihavenojob]

They really haven't a clue it seems.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-saved-mps-outsourcing-back-office-functions

 

[HawkEye244]

How has technology created the billions of jobs that people do today, that didn't exist a hundred years ago?


Ever noticed how the more sophisticated technology becomes, the less reliable it gets? What will those 5-10 people do when the first component fails? Where do the machines come from in the first place? Machines will never 'run themselves' .

You're also still deliberately ignoring how the more automated things become, the cheaper everything gets, and therefore the less people have to work to live. These are basic laws of economics. Here's a very quick and easy primer if you want to get a grip on them (try skipping to page 33):
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Henry Hazlitt Economics in One Lesson.pdf?file=1&type=document

Ermm mate I think you'll find they will... well you might not but our species will.

Cheers for the link though. Will read.

You're also still deliberately ignoring how the more automated things become, the cheaper everything gets, and therefore the less people have to work to live. These are basic laws of economics. Here's a very quick and easy primer if you want to get a grip on them (try skipping to page 33):
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Henry Hazlitt Economics in One Lesson.pdf?file=1&type=document

Isn't that what I've been saying for the past 3-4 pages Gerry ????????!

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Isn't that what I've been saying for the past 3-4 pages Gerry ????????!

I don't think so..? You've been saying that machines will put everyone out of work and make everyone, presumably, destitute...

 

[HawkEye244]

They'll make it illegal, I'm sure. You'll probably have to pay a reg fee to get access to thousands of spare parts.


This is wrong. There is always a limit to any technology. Be it light bulbs, toys, cars, trains..... everything has a limit.

You assume that 3d printing will not have limits. This is misplaced. Like I said, they could make things out of composite materials, and ensure that the bits that can be done on a 3d printer are the bits that are least likely to fail.

Planned obselecscence is a thing.

Wobs, not being funny but would you like a run down of all the things that are 'illegal' that people still do? 'Reg fee' lmao.. you've given your age away there.. Have you ever heard of the dark web ???

3d printers will be able to produce parts and indeed entire machinery at one point, at source.. as well as replacement parts FOR ITSELF. Planned obsolescence IS built into our current economic system meaning it is grossly wasteful and ineffcient. In fact 3d printing is a neo-capitalists worst nightmare because a product with a lifelong lifespan means people won't be buying products from them/their companies... slowing the market... same with the energy markets.. you are aware that oil companies routinely buy up renewable energy patents in an attempt to keep people reliant on fossil fuels because this is how they make their money? Same premise.

.. we can't continue in this fashion anyway and expect to be able to eat and breathe from the earth.. the amount of terminal/chronic diseases are on the increase, the nature of the current market is a co-factor in this.

We cannot assume that a technology will be affordable one day. We cannot know with certainty that any particular technology will be. Are we flying around in Concordes at twice the speed of sound? Or are we flying in bigger slower planes?

Well it will be, in the same way that personal computers are afforable now. The market may try to stifle expansion in this area but inevitably they will fail.

And growing something that requires heat in somewhere like the UK requires heat. This ups the carbon footprint. Eg. UK tomatoes have a higher carbon footprint than pork, turkey or chicken, and often higher than foods that have travelled from 1000s of miles away. Food that requires storage so we can eat out of season also have a high carbon footprint, so UK apples bought in June will have a higher carbon footprint than a foreign apple.

No, renewable energies, photovoltaic, but most especially geo-thermal which is extremely efficient (the most efficient renewable technology prorata).. you can run entire buildings on a closed system without having to access the grid.. this is already being done. If you want tropical climates this is achieved through artifical/indoor environments with minute running costs. do you think this isn't possible in the UK

I base it upon history. For the past few hundred years, technology has improved, fewer jobs have been required for many industries, and yet there are more jobs, and more prosperity. I see no evidence that there will be mass unemployment due to automation.

There may be some white collar jobs that could go soon, but again, this does not mean that everyone will get laid off, and new skills will be required.

Enough to end the system as we know it.

 

[HawkEye244]

I don't think so..? You've been saying that machines will put everyone out of work and make everyone, presumably, destitute...

You've just said it yourself ... ''the cheaper everything gets, and therefore the less people have to work to live.''

 

[HawkEye244]

I find it very interesting that economics is starting to be discussed in this forum !

To fully understand economics . . . & how an economy works . . . you first need to be able to strip everything back to basics. Cut out the ******, & see things for exactly what they are.

Having read the 6 pages of this nonsense so far . . . I see I have much more work to do.

What on earth are you talking about??!

 

[Gerrydelasel]

You've just said it yourself ... ''the cheaper everything gets, and therefore the less people have to work to live.''

So why are you afraid of automation when it means people won't need to work (as much)?

 

[HawkEye244]

So why are you afraid of automation when it means people won't need to work (as much)?

Because what do you think that will mean for the government Gerry ???? It will mean people will not have a job to buy product and if they don't have a job to buy product they will need to be supported and how Gerry ???? With what money... that is where the massive wealth re-distribution comes in.. and how are you expecting the power circles with their trillions upon trillions to respond to that ?????? Think please

 

[Gerrydelasel]

It will mean people will not have a job to buy product and if they don't have a job to buy product they will need to be supported and how Gerry ???

How are you not joining the dots here? Automation makes things CHEAPER, therefore people need to WORK LESS, because they need LESS MONEY to buy the product.

 

[HawkEye244]

How are you not joining the dots here? Automation makes things CHEAPER, therefore people need to WORK LESS, because they need LESS MONEY to buy the product.

How do they need LESS money, the cost of living has increased and wages have stagnated??

 

[Gerrydelasel]

How do they need LESS money, the cost of living has increased and wages have stagnated??

Since when? Last January? I'm talking about long term changes. The cost of living today is lower than it was in the last decade, which is lower than the decade before that, and so on. In the next decade further automation will make it even cheaper than it is today, and so on.

 

[EFLImpudence]

therefore people need to WORK LESS, because they need LESS MONEY to buy the product.

Why has that not happened already?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Why has that not happened already?

Huh? It has. People used to work 18 hours every day to earn a crust of bread. Today they work 8 hours a day for 8 months of the year and can own their own house, two cars, discard half their food uneaten, redecorate and take a holiday in the Azores every year... What people have become, I'll grant you, is more ungrateful and entitled...

 

[HawkEye244]

Since when? Last January? I'm talking about long term changes. The cost of living today is lower than it was in the last decade, which is lower than the decade before that, and so on. In the next decade further automation will make it even cheaper than it is today, and so on.

No it's not, that's not true at all. Inflation has sjyrockected over the last 50 years.. how much would a person pay to rent a flat in an inner city in 1990 versus 2016 ?? The cost of food and goods across the board.. energy.. everything.. the pound is worth a fraction of what it was 50 years ago, you realise this? Brexit or no brexit.. this is because of effciency savings, outsourcing, population booms, job obsolescence to automation/mechanisation etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Wealth inequality was smallest directly after WW2 and has been steadly worsening ever since, that means the difference between the highest and lowest incomes has never been worse than it is today.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Huh? It has. People used to work 18 hours a day to earn a crust of bread.

Well, no. That was slavery.

Today they work 8 hours a day and can still take a 2 week holiday in the Azores every year. Progress.

Not compared with when I started work.

They didn't go to the Azores because there weren't flights (to such places).
It is the transport revolution which has lead to such things; not increased wages.
I think you'll find that working hours have increased especially with both partners having jobs.