Let's NOT give £350m extra each week to the NHS! A better idea....

[Gerrydelasel]

Well, no. That was slavery.

Crack open a history book, you might learn something.

They didn't go to the Azores because there weren't flights (to such places). It is the transport revolution which has lead to such things; not increased wages.

And how did that come about? Technology and automation. Before cheap flights there were expensive flights. Before flights there were trains. Before trains people didn't go on holiday at all.

I think you'll find that working hours have increased especially with both partners having jobs.

I think you'll find every member of the household used to work, including the children. They worked long hours at home, or in mills, mines and factories.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Crack open a history book, you might learn something.

I'm not talking history; I said when I started work.
We were fed with the automation will mean less work and more leisure. It has not happened.

And how did that come about? Technology and automation. Before cheap flights there were expensive flights. Before flights there were trains. Before trains people didn't go on holiday at all.

Isn't that what I said? It is not a result of higher wages.

I think you'll find every member of the household used to work, including the children. They worked long hours at home, or in mills, mines and factories.

You're going back too far; as I said, that was slavery.

No, when I was little, neither I nor my Mother had jobs.
Ordinary jobs by the husband were enough to live on.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

No it's not, that's not true at all. Inflation has sjyrockected over the last 50 years.. The cost of food and goods across the board.. energy.. everything.. the pound is worth a fraction of what it was 50 years ago, you realise this?

Are you delusional? Did you actually live 50 years ago? Don't you remeber how little people had copared with today? How cold and dilapidated their houses were? How few people owned telephones or TVs or cars or indoor toilets? How little food they got for their money? For comparison in 1960 a typical wage might be £15 per week and would buy 450 pints of milk. Today a typical wage is £500 per week or 800 pints of milk! (And the work is less physically demanding).

 

[Gerrydelasel]

I'm not talking history; I said when I started work.
We were fed with the automation will mean less work and more leisure. It has not happened.

In your personal case it sounds like you're working the same hours, but because that same automation has made everything cheaper, your money now goes further. Your job is presumably easier too, thanks to automation. No more slide rules and hand tools, yes?

You're going back too far; as I said, that was slavery.

A family making wool at home, or farming a homestead, or operating a loom in a factory, or delivering boxes, is not slavery.

Ordinary jobs by the husband were enough to live on.

And they still are -more than ever- if you're happy to live to the same historical standard. People have a lot more disposable income these days. Oh sure, they'll claim they don't, but that's because they also buy more stuff. They can do that because the stuff is so much cheaper than it used to be. People have short memories. Remember when it was common to see threadbare curtains in houses? When was the last time you saw threadbare curtains?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Did you actually live 50 years ago?

Yep - just started work.
If you didn't then you may be mistaken.

Don't you remeber how little people had copared with today? How cold and dilapidated their houses were?

Ours was not like that.
You're up t'north in an industrial area where things should have been better because of the wealth produced but it wasn't like that was it? Bosses not paying fairly?

How few people owned telephones or TVs or cars or indoor toilets?

Didn't have a telephone as there was no one to call.
Had TV in 1954.
Car a bit later.
I don't think there were any outdoor toilets in the towns; just out in the country.

How little food they got for their money?

Well it was rationed at first but after that it couldn't have been that expensive.
It was, of course, free (not counting the work) in the country.

For comparison in 1960 a typical wage might be £15 per week and would buy 450 pints of milk. Today a typical wage is £500 per week or 800 pints of milk!

Isn't that down to the supermarkets screwing the milk producers?
I thought the currency was the Mars bar. How does that compare?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Ours was not like that.
You're up t'north in an industrial area where things should have been better because of the wealth produced but it wasn't like that was it? Bosses not paying fairly?

Pick any part of the country you like, it's the same story. Ever watched the L-shaped room? Set in London.

It was, of course, free (not counting the work) in the country.

Oh sure, everyone's longing for the good ol' days of free diseased milk and turnips.

Isn't that down to the supermarkets screwing the milk producers?

Pick something else if you don't like the example. About 360 loaves of bread in 1960, or 500 today.

Some things are more expensive of course. Tabacco and alcohol, but that is due to policy changes not market price (proof: on the continent they cost next to nothing). Also property has substituted gold as a currency guarentee.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, there were still slums around but that is different than what you are arguing about.

What do people in London who earn a 'normal' wage do today?

 

[Brigade77]

Did you know ? That most economists place the value to society of 1 hours basic labour at between £40-£60 !

That is 1 (ONE) hours basic labour.

And if the gobshoite thinks a family working a loom or farming t'land for 18hrs a day isn't slavery . . . then it should take Monday off work & treat it's family to a day at the seaside. It might find its slave master objects to the short notice.

 

[securespark]

I had to go into hospital for a couple of days earlier in the year. Everyone is always banging on about foreigners working in The NHS keeping it going. However, most of the foreigners I saw there were receiving treatment, not giving it.

And you knew they were foreigners because:

a. They didn't have an E111.
b. They sang "I want to know what love is".
c. Of their appearance.

 

[securespark]

Mate that's what the NHS is for.

No. Do you think Bevan created it so people could get so wasted they not only needed medical treatment or more often babysitting because they couldn't look after themselves and often abused the doctors and nurses to boot?

He's probably spinning in his grave.

If your missus lost a dildo inside her...

Nothing a few digits and some KY Jelly can't fix.

they probably pay fukcing tax and deserve a service for it.

Derserve: do something or have or show qualities worthy of (a reaction which rewards or punishes as appropriate).

They should not be automatically entitled to treatment because they have voluntarily poisoned themselves.

 

[Brigade77]

No. Do you think Bevan created it so people could get so wasted they not only needed medical treatment or more often babysitting because they couldn't look after themselves and often abused the doctors and nurses to boot?

He's probably spinning in his grave.

This is what worries me about the NHS & the welfare state in general.

Does the existence of one create the other?

Most folk I know are hardworking & looking to better themselve's, yet we all know folk who simply lay back & moan that 'the man' don't pay enuff'.

 

[securespark]

I think there's a whole generation of soft as **** mardarses who think it's the NHS and State's responsibility to put them back on their feet and wipe their arses when they fall over drunk or can't stop having babies.

Since when did the NHS get charged with the responsibilty of picking up the pieces when people don't know when to stop drinking?

Since when did the Police have to attend every minor domestic argument (I'm not talking about assault) because people don't know how to behave civilly to another human being, one who is usually their partner.

These things are simply not the responsibility of the emergency services!

 

[Brigade77]

I think there's a whole generation of soft as **** mardarses who think it's the NHS and State's responsibility to put them back on their feet and wipe their arses when they fall over drunk or can't stop having babies.

Since when did the NHS get charged with the responsibilty of picking up the pieces when people don't know when to stop drinking?

Since when did the Police have to attend every minor domestic argument (I'm not talking about assault) because people don't know how to behave civilly to another human being, one who is usually their partner.

These things are simply not the responsibility of the emergency services!

You have become a victim of how the MSM portrays the problem to those who we call 'asleep'.

If you think that the problem is all about pi$$heads & chavs then there's not much point in you discussing it any further.

But, if you can possibly see where the 'real' money is going, then maybe we can talk.

 

[securespark]

Sigh...Whatever.

 

[blightymam]

I think there's a whole generation of soft as **** mardarses who think it's the NHS and State's responsibility to put them back on their feet and wipe their arses when they fall over drunk or can't stop having babies.

Since when did the NHS get charged with the responsibilty of picking up the pieces when people don't know when to stop drinking?

Since when did the Police have to attend every minor domestic argument (I'm not talking about assault) because people don't know how to behave civilly to another human being, one who is usually their partner.

These things are simply not the responsibility of the emergency services!

About 20 years ago I followed my bruv as a photo project on a night shift in A&E. He's a radiographer in a busy London hospital and I would say that pretty much 85% of all incidents he had to deal with were drink related. It was an eye opener for me but he said it was normal for a weekend. Then there's the cost of the ambulance and the fact that some drunks are very aggressive, meaning the police as well as medical staff are needed to deal with them.
There's something to be said for the fact people do not know how to live more modestly with their food and drink. Isn't also diabetes that's costing the NHS a bomb, purely down to bad lifestyle and they think it's going to get worse? There has to be some responsibility by people as the pot of money is not limitless....