Liar .............

Don't twist things and i'll answer your questions !!! :rolleyes:
I twisted nothing...

You on the other hand made out that 4500 cops had been killed 'in the line of duty', instead of the reality...

So lets pick one force on that memorial site shall we?

How about the Met...206 deaths listed, and yet only 27 as a result of a crime of murder or manslaughter - all of which hopefully ended up with someone in Jail

Plenty of mentions including the word 'accident' though....

And then of course we have the following:
"Death hastened by excessive hours of work as national Federation Secretary".
"Accidentally shot dead cleaning a police pistol used on bank escorts".
"Collapsed and died while taking a party of Cadets mountain walking in Wales".
etc etc...

So I ask yet again...what do you say about all those who died in police custody?...Do you care about them?

Why do you find it so difficult to acknowledge that the police are responsible for the deaths of innocents as well as being victims themselves?
 
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The question of 'intent' is irrelevant in this case as Harwood has been charged with manslaughter and not murder.

The CPS only have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Mr Tomlinson died as a result of Harwood's actions. In other words, if Harwood had not done what he did, would Mr Tomlinson have died?
 
In other words, if Harwood had not done what he did, would Mr Tomlinson have died?

Tomlinson could have slipped on a cheese and onion pasty, it makes not a jot of difference. Same result.
His insides were ready to pop. Fact.

If he slipped on a pasty would we be having this conversation? You can't compare a pasty with a brutal, law breaking officer of the law.
 
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Last Magic Bean is going to die sooner or later, from disease, accident or old age.

So I suppose it doesn't matter if I kill him, a bit early, right?
 
But what else could they return? Lawful killing? :eek: nonsense...

it was an accident....not at all intentional.... the shove was assertive... the kind of shove you'd see a copper make on a football crowd, or angry demonstrators... in this instance, Harwood didn't know Tomlinson was homeless, or that he'd tried to get to his hostel many times, Harwood knew none of that.... he took it on face value... and an assertive push would make the guy realise he should walk in the other direction.... instead of ignoring police commands...

Ahh now the push was "assertive" . Slightly different from the "Simple shove" or "Gentle push" proffered, earlier in the thread.
You say it was the sort of shove you'd see a copper make against a football crowd or angry demonstrators.
Did Ian Tomlinson, look like he'd just been to a football match? Did he look like an "Angry demonstrator?",,,,, No he most clearly did not.. Obviously Harwood knew none of that, but as a police officer, should have made an informed decision.
Personally , I believe Harwood, did make an informed decision that day. An informed decision to pick the easiest target (bullies often do pick the easiest targets)
He certainly didn't perceive Tomlinson as a threat. Threats don't generally walk away from you slowly, with their hands in their pockets.
He may well have mistaken Tomlinson for a football fan,,,, but then you have to surmise that Harwood equates football fans with violence and mayhem. You then have to ask yourself the question,, Are all football fans violent, or hell bent on causing mayhem?.
Simple answer ,,, NO they are not.
Nah ,, Harwood was out that day to see how many people he could hurt/hit. Why else did his superiors set him the task of looking after a police van? Was it because they knew of his past? I dare bet it was. (but that is never going to come out in open court) His superiors have closed ranks now, to cover their own backs. I dare bet there are a few a****s twitching in the Met over this case.
There are numerous questions in this case that are always going to go unanswered, but at the end of it (whatever the verdict) I bet Harwood will be summarily dismissed from serving in any police force in the country. He'll be lucky to even get a job as a security guard on a run down building site in the bloody Outer Hebrides...... And that will serve him bloody well right.

Isn't it a bit funny JJ that if you enter either "Simple shove" or "Gentle push" into DIYnot's search thing and look for author imamartian, you get zero results !!! :rolleyes:
 
That's the whole point libby. I don't believe he should even be up in court.

So , do you believe all charges of manslaughter (against anyone) should be done away with? The plain fact is that Tomlinson would not have died that day, if it wasn't for that cowardly attack, by a supposed professional.
 
it's too late to ask LMB, I've already pushed him under a bus (with his consent)
 
there are two or more people in this debate who are extremists and should be ashamed of themselves, and i think it's my replies to them that some of you have taken wrongly.

Firstly a man died which is a catastrophy, and i'm not making light of that in anyway shape or form. Some of you alledge that PC H has previous - i'm not aware of any of that, so i'm looking at his actions as an average PC (back off peaps2 :evil: ).
So on that basis, my view is that T died as a consequence of a shove by H. H did NOT mean to kill T, therefore he should be up for manslaughter. There is enough video evidence around to find him guilty, but the judge should be lenient based on the circumstances across Londan that day (although as mentioned, if H has previous, that should be taken into account).

Some of the arguments suggested about human rights have been farcical. You might not like kettling or being told what to do by another human, and you may be as innocent as a baby, but unfortunately when the law demands you move, you have to comply.

The big thing some of you seem to get wrong is the difference between involvement and intention.... it's a bit like running a cat over that runs out into the road... you killed a cat, but did you set out to kill a cat?
 
So , do you believe all charges of manslaughter (against anyone) should be done away with?
Nope, I thought you knew me better than that John. Of course I don't think that.

The plain fact is that Tomlinson would not have died that day, if it wasn't for that cowardly attack, by a supposed professional.

My answer to this was put a few posts ago.
 
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