Liar .............

[peaps2]

Some of you lot are just anti authority, and we get an unfortunate case like Tomlinsons and you lot pounce.

The police do one of the most difficult jobs there is.... they operate (well most of them) by a set of rules whereas what they face, i.e. the criminal world throws those rules out of the window.

To me the actions of PC Harwood in that situation were within the boundary of reasonable. Don't forget the hundreds of people who were throwing rocks, torching buildings etc etc. So the police needed to act. A strike to the leg, and a robust push would've been ignored had the guy not died.


What annoys me most about you lot is this:
http://www.westlondontoday.co.uk/wl...p-hailed-hero-who-tried-protect-his-community

and this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-riots-three-men-killed-protecting-homes.html

4 people killed by rioters.... not one mention from you lot...

You must have watched a different video to me, I couldn't see any "riot rubble" on the streets or petrol bombs falling at the floor of the police, all I could see was the police clearing the street in the fashion only Thames police know. It transpired that Tomlinson had tried on 4 occasions to walk out of the area but was turned back, this was after cctv was reviewed. He wasn't even dress for rioting let alone in a fit state to riot. He was a drunken homeless man down on his luck minding his own. No threat at all and causing no trouble.

This copper is a lose cannon and has a back track record. He should get a good stretch in the clink.

 

[LastMagicBean]

because the police had run away ????

Would you blame them if they did???
Why should they bother anymore?
You can't have it both ways chapeau.

 

[gasbanni]

Gasbannni you have a go at me... ignore four human deaths - even yawn at the mention of them... and then have the gall to post this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166356/Finn-peace-buried-overlooking-creek-loved-swim-run-TOBY-HARNDEN-recounts-final-heart-rending-days-beloved-rescue-dog-sleep-arms.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...N-S-daredevil-dog-followed-world.html[/QUOTE]

about dogs?

wow !! you have your priorities wrong fella !!!

do you only speak in icons? is that your limit?

Public sector worker public sector worker
blinkered mental shirker !

 

[LastMagicBean]

It transpired that Tomlinson had tried on 4 occasions to walk out of the area but was turned back, this was after cctv was reviewed.

He was trying to find another route into the chaos. FFS

 

[chapeau]

because the police had run away ????

Would you blame them if they did???
Why should they bother anymore?
You can't have it both ways chapeau.

I only want one way - proportionality.

i.e. when faced with a street full of rioters burning and looting you deploy anti riot techniques and I will expect the thugs in the police to be released to clear the streets.

When faced with a generally peaceful student protest I expect the police to facilitate that protest and the police thugs should be kept in their vans.

If you claim this is difficult I say I don't care, I expect the police to do a lot better than they do. If I thought they were making an effort I would cut them more slack, but as you suggested they no longer bother.

Spoken as an very well eductated middle class middle aged white chap who pays his taxes with no criminal record. Usually vote conservative (but not always, never labour). The sort of person who is a natural supporter of the police, doesn't it worry you that I find the Met a corrupt organisation that has too many thugs in it and their thuggery is protected by the Met ?? That the police forces in general now protect and serve their own interests instead of ours?

And we still don't know why Mark Duggan was shot dead, why the Met lied about being fired on first, why the IPCC are refusing to provide details, and why the officers involved refuse to answer questions.

 

[ellal]

So any of you cop haters care to explain the 4 deaths?

I hate thug cops...so not the same thing as you wish to label people as

But since you seem to want to divert attention from the killing of tomlinson, would you care to explain the following?

Deaths in Police custody 1998 - 2010..... 333

Out of the total of 333 deaths, 87 people had been restrained, most commonly being physically held down by officers. In 16 of those cases, restraint was linked directly to the death, and four were classed as "positional asphyxia".

Police convictions.....None!

 

[LastMagicBean]

i.e. when faced with a street full of rioters burning and looting you deploy anti riot techniques.

That's exactly what happened. So we agree then?

When faced with a generally peaceful student protest I expect the police to facilitate that protest and the police thugs should be kept in their vans.

What peaceful protest are we talking about now. I don't get it.

If you claim this is difficult I say I don't care, I expect the police to do a lot better than they do. If I thought they were making an effort I would cut them more slack, but as you suggested they no longer bother.

Can you blame them though. We simply can't pick and choose. I genuinely wouldn't blame them for saying "s*d it. I'm staying in the van, let 'em burn and loot to their hearts content".
It's a no win situation. Joe public will rue the day they let law and order go down the pan based on the odd unfortunate isolated incident. By that time it will be too late.

Spoken as an very well eductated middle class middle aged white chap who pays his taxes with no criminal record. Usually vote conservative (but not always, never labour). The sort of person who is a natural supporter of the police, doesn't it worry you that I find the Met a corrupt organisation that has too many thugs in it and their thuggery is protected by the Met ?? That the police forces in general now protect and serve their own interests instead of ours?

Sadly there are thugs in all walks of life. If a gang of scumbags broke into your house and systematically attacked your family,(god forbid) You can't phone the Police and say "can you please send the nasty ones"
You simply can't pick and choose. Infact the path we're on at the moment will eventually end up with no-one turning up at all, and that will be fundamentally down to the general publics constant criticism.

 

[peaps2]

It transpired that Tomlinson had tried on 4 occasions to walk out of the area but was turned back, this was after cctv was reviewed.

He was trying to find another route into the chaos. FFS

idiot

 

[libby lou lou]

It transpired that Tomlinson had tried on 4 occasions to walk out of the area but was turned back, this was after cctv was reviewed.

He was trying to find another route into the chaos. FFS

What a silly statement, pull the old man down before the bent copper.

 

[libby lou lou]

Maybe you need to run faster?

 

[imamartian]

this is all about spin.. let's add some weighting to the discussion..

The London riots are going on.....

Old (-1) Homeless(-1) man Shuffling(-1) home with his hands in his pockets(1), tries 4 times to get home(-1)... ah! but he's foookin homeless so what home is he heading for!!!!!!!!!
Evil copper PC Harwood (-100) ignores orders to stay at the van(-1) and strikes a man - on the legs - who seems to be challenging police lines(+1), the man continues to ignore the obvious fact he has to move in the other direction and get's a robust shove... the sort of shove you see being dished out to kids trying to touch the olympic torch, or given to drunked revellers trying to get into a nightclub they're not welcome in. Neither intended to cause any harm.

Man dies - and i genuinly wish the guy hadn't died, life is too precious.. but if he's gonna die from a push, he could've died after getting drunk and rebounding off a lampost...

Your arguments are literally weighted with emotion and anti-police sentiment.

What if the cops turn you back at a road block and you crash and die on the way home... is that the PC's fault?

 

[joinerjohn]

What's it matter where i work? i want a police force empowered to protect the vast majority of society. A society that thinks rioting is wrong... hit and run is wrong...

So why do you choose not to even acknowledge the 4 deaths i mentioned (although you did, but with a yawn) and focus on the unfortunate turn of events around Tomlinson?

You forget,, Ian Tomlinson wasn't a protester. Nor was he "rioting". He was walking away from the police lines and was a danger to no one.

Evil copper PC Harwood (-100) ignores orders to stay at the van(-1) and strikes a man - on the legs

Then you digress even further stretching the realms of the truth

who seems to be challenging police lines

You think walking away from the police lines is challenging them?
To do what exactly? Challenging them to hit him and shove him to the ground with such force that he later dies?

You then try (unsuccessfully , I might add) to justify this by saying it was the sort of shove given to kids who try to steal the Olympic torch or drunken revellers trying to get into a nightclub, Neither are really doing any harm. Are you sure?
So if some drunken youth tries to get into your house on a Saturday night, to try and steal your possessions, he's not really intending to cause any harm or bother to you?
Amazing Marty . I have it in mind now that you read the Guardian on a daily basis. Support the Limp Dems, and truly believe that Hitler was actually just misunderstood.

 

[joinerjohn]

For what it's worth. There was only one person there that day in the wrong place at the wrong time. And that person, should have been guarding a bloody police van, instead of disobeying a direct order.
Had PC Harwood, followed orders he'd have stayed with the van. Instead he disobeyed those orders and should be dismissed anyway. (after serving a long stretch in HMP's for causing the death of an innocent man.

 

[imamartian]

What's it matter where i work? i want a police force empowered to protect the vast majority of society. A society that thinks rioting is wrong... hit and run is wrong...

So why do you choose not to even acknowledge the 4 deaths i mentioned (although you did, but with a yawn) and focus on the unfortunate turn of events around Tomlinson?

You forget,, Ian Tomlinson wasn't a protester. Nor was he "rioting". He was walking away from the police lines and was a danger to no one.

Evil copper PC Harwood (-100) ignores orders to stay at the van(-1) and strikes a man - on the legs

Then you digress even further stretching the realms of the truth

who seems to be challenging police lines

You think walking away from the police lines is challenging them?
To do what exactly? Challenging them to hit him and shove him to the ground with such force that he later dies?

You then try (unsuccessfully , I might add) to justify this by saying it was the sort of shove given to kids who try to steal the Olympic torch or drunken revellers trying to get into a nightclub, Neither are really doing any harm. Are you sure?
So if some drunken youth tries to get into your house on a Saturday night, to try and steal your possessions, he's not really intending to cause any harm or bother to you?
Amazing Marty . I have it in mind now that you read the Guardian on a daily basis. Support the Limp Dems, and truly believe that Hitler was actually just misunderstood.

JJ don't assume what paper i read... it's irrelavent....

And it's not a question whether Tomlinson was a protestor or a rioter or a deaf person or a foreign visitor or anything else.. this is what the police have to deal with, a different rule set for a billion different scenarios.

The point is Tomlinson was being forced, by a line of police in a direction other that he wanted to go in... unfortunately it makes no odds... he has to comply... and a strike to the legs should reinforce that... and if he's still within reaching distance of a shove... he hasn't got the message... and he got a shove...

And i suggest you ask any medical person but a shove never ever killed anyone..

 

[libby lou lou]

And i suggest you ask any medical person but a shove never ever killed anyone..




Did in this case.