Life in 2020

[andy]

Would it be better to tax road-miles than fuel usage to encourage a greater degree of self- and local-sufficiency?

no. what about those who work anywere in a 15 mile radius, and can be at 1 side for one job and the other side for the next job. what we need is alternative ways to get power. like i say, mixing diesel 50/50 will drop CO2 emmissions by upto 50% from diesel cars. its a start. at least im helpin the environment. i could just drive on 100% diesel...

 

[Freddie]

Shops do have more enviroment friendly food for sale but with all the shouting about who is destroying the enviroment the shoppers time and time again shun any other food and always buy the cheapest and most un-enviroment friendly food.

I don't think this is true. Sales of organic and free-trade food are increasing year-on-year even though they are more expensive.

Yes but the share of the market is tiny compared to the mass produced

 

[oilman]

...................like i say, mixing diesel 50/50 will drop CO2 emmissions by upto 50% from diesel cars. its a start. at least im helpin the environment. i could just drive on 100% diesel...

Your last sentence doesen't make sense after reading the first sentence.

Even so, the assumption that we can reduce the CO2 by "up to 50%" would not get anywhere near 50% if you grow the oil producing crops using fertiliser, most of which comes from oil.

There are problems for some people who have tried running their engines on veggie oil, where the fuel has damaged the pump and/or injectors. That's with conventional engines, with common rail or HDI engines it's almost a dead cert damage will reduce the life of the injectors, and at £350 each + fitting .....................

 

[petewood]

Would it be better to tax road-miles than fuel usage to encourage a greater degree of self- and local-sufficiency?

no. what about those who work anywere in a 15 mile radius, and can be at 1 side for one job and the other side for the next job. what we need is alternative ways to get power. like i say, mixing diesel 50/50 will drop CO2 emmissions by upto 50% from diesel cars. its a start. at least im helpin the environment. i could just drive on 100% diesel...

What I'm trying to say is that we need to start driving less rather than trying to find ways to keep driving as much as we do. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread alternative fuel sources are heavily reliant on fossil fuels for production. Also, as sea levels rise and more people need to move inland away from low-lying coastal regions, land will be at such a premium that arable land will all be needed for food production rather than production of bio-fuels. One day the cost of driving around will outweigh the income generated by travelling to jobs and then things will change at a rapid pace. It would be best to start anticipating this sooner as a longer transition period will be less of a shock to the economy (and to drivers).

 

[petewood]

I just read that the govt is drawing up obligations for the fuel companies to sell diesel and petrol containing 5% biofuel (I'm sure this proportion will increase once it's up and running). This seems to be the only way they can meet their pledges on reducing carbon emissions. Sounds like good news for once.

 

[oilman]

Not necessarily, it's just political posturing, as you said, we need to drive less. To run cars (lorries are a bigger problem) on bio-fuel it would take 10 acres/car/year give or take.

 

[Freddie]

Not necessarily, it's just political posturing, as you said, we need to drive less. To run cars (lorries are a bigger problem) on bio-fuel it would take 10 acres/car/year give or take.

And thats only if you use lashings of bagged fertiliser ( nitrogen ) aswell--not forgetting any weedkiller etc.

 

[joe-90]

And the harvest/pressing/refining/ wast disposal of the crop make it a complete non-starter. There is no free lunch in nature (apart from oil). You will expend more oil energy producing the new fuel than the new fuel contains. So what is the point? Plus, where do you find a place to grow this wonder crop that will solve all our energy woes?


joe

 

[Softus]

And the harvest/pressing/refining/ wast disposal of the crop make it a complete non-starter. There is no free lunch in nature (apart from oil). You will expend more oil energy producing the new fuel than the new fuel contains. So what is the point? Plus, where do you find a place to grow this wonder crop that will solve all our energy woes?


joe

Pardon me for trivialising, but that's an easy one - you could grow it on the land that you had originally earmarked for the ill-fated global DNA profile database.

 

[joe-90]

And the harvest/pressing/refining/ wast disposal of the crop make it a complete non-starter. There is no free lunch in nature (apart from oil). You will expend more oil energy producing the new fuel than the new fuel contains. So what is the point? Plus, where do you find a place to grow this wonder crop that will solve all our energy woes?


joe

Pardon me for trivialising, but that's an easy one - you could grow it on the land that you had originally earmarked for the ill-fated global DNA profile database.

You mean the space of one lickle computer? BTW are you happy that fraudsters from abroad are stealing your tax money? You are? That's OK then.


joe

 

[Freddie]

Nobodies mentioned the production of Alcahol--the Brazilians made and are making it work again and it is cost effective with out oil.

 

[joe-90]

Nobodies mentioned the production of Alcahol--the Brazilians made and are making it work again and it is cost effective with out oil.

Unfortunately alcohol has a rather low calorific value so you would need large quantities of the stuff. Try making a home brew on a scale 100 times what you would normally make to drink - and you'll run your car for a week. Not only that, where do you get the materials to brew with? You can't grow sugar without fertilizer and fertilizer comes from oil - so you may as well just use the oil. There is NO alternative to oil - and there never will be.


joe

 

[Freddie]

Nobodies mentioned the production of Alcahol--the Brazilians made and are making it work again and it is cost effective with out oil.

Unfortunately alcohol has a rather low calorific value so you would need large quantities of the stuff. Try making a home brew on a scale 100 times what you would normally make to drink - and you'll run your car for a week. Not only that, where do you get the materials to brew with? You can't grow sugar without fertilizer and fertilizer comes from oil - so you may as well just use the oil. There is NO alternative to oil - and there never will be.


joe

Just say you dont trust muslims round here and you will be sure to generate so much hot air you could power a steam locomotive!

 

[Softus]

And the harvest/pressing/refining/ wast disposal of the crop make it a complete non-starter. There is no free lunch in nature (apart from oil). You will expend more oil energy producing the new fuel than the new fuel contains. So what is the point? Plus, where do you find a place to grow this wonder crop that will solve all our energy woes?


joe

Pardon me for trivialising, but that's an easy one - you could grow it on the land that you had originally earmarked for the ill-fated global DNA profile database.

You mean the space of one lickle computer? BTW are you happy that fraudsters from abroad are stealing your tax money? You are? That's OK then.


joe

No [sigh], you tediously blinkered little girl, I mean the space for all the people and analytical equipment it would take to adminster the outlandish idea.

BTW, I would rather my taxes were spent on refugees, whether illegal or otherwise, than on the education system that is due to spit you out when you reach 16 and have to go on the game.

 

[Freddie]

Softus just a question---why if you come across someone with views other than your own do you try to attack--blame or insult them---at first it can be seen as funny, but you know too many times, it wears thin.