Lifting flooring

[spiidey]

Separately, some of the now exposed joists have got a bit of flaking of wood / hairline cracks in them. Is this superficial / nothing to worry about, or should we be getting this looked at?

LINK TO ORIGINAL SIZED IMAGE:- http://i57.tinypic.com/2uokokl.jpg

LINK TO ORIGINAL SIZED IMAGE:- http://i57.tinypic.com/309u5ns.jpg

 

[spiidey]

Finally, some of the joists appear to be slightly lower or higher in places (see pic of skirting board, which I've checked with a straight edge and the skirting is level).

The chap who lifted the floorboards suggested the joists might be slightly warped in places. Is this correct / normal? Anything to worry about?

How do we correct this i.e. level the floor properly?

LINK TO ORIGINAL SIZED IMAGE:- http://i59.tinypic.com/116kfia.jpg

LINK TO ORIGINAL SIZED IMAGE:- http://i58.tinypic.com/2w4lp2t.jpg

 

[ree]

The joists appear to be level enough - dont go messing with them unless you had significant floor levelling issues before raising the panels.
Unless the joists show fungal rot the splintering is irrelevant.

Where you need bearing between 1. & 2. then simply fix noggins - screwed to the number 1. joist in the gaps between the pipes and cables, and then run solid blocking between the noggins. Create a box.


Did the handyman rip the last panel to lift it/them or is that strip of flooring at 1. the factory edge of a panel going under a partition? The same question applies to the return wall with the joist hangers?

What are the flexi hoses doing - are they connected to extractors?

Remove any rubble from the joist bays.

 

[spiidey]

The joists appear to be level enough - dont go messing with them unless you had significant floor levelling issues before raising the panels.

I agree I don’t want to go messing with the joists in any significant capacity. Is there a workaround so that we could slightly increase the height of the joist that is sitting slightly lower than the neighbouring joists?

Unless the joists show fungal rot the splintering is irrelevant.

Thanks.

So splintering irrelevant – will ignore this from now.

Where you need bearing between 1. & 2. then simply fix noggins - screwed to the number 1. joist in the gaps between the pipes and cables, and then run solid blocking between the noggins. Create a box.

Can you provide a bit more detail on exactly what we need to do here – that would really help me out. Is there an online tutorial on how to do this?

Did the handyman rip the last panel to lift it/them or is that strip of flooring at 1. the factory edge of a panel going under a partition?

The handyman cut the panels along the line indicated by “3” in the picture previously posted. So the strip of flooring that remains (i.e. on the right-hand side of the “3” line) is the existing flooring which goes under the partition.

The same question applies to the return wall with the joist hangers?

Which wall – is the wall directly opposite the wall marked “1” in the previous picture (i.e. directly opposite the wall with the wallpaper, the double plug socket, the aerial socket, and the satellite cables protruding from it)?

What are the flexi hoses doing - are they connected to extractors?

I need to investigate this – if not connected then I’ll be removing.

Remove any rubble from the joist bays.

Yep, will do, as we’re laying insulation in the void so will need to clear prior to doing this.

 

[spiidey]

Couple of other things to pick up:-

The floor prior to being lifted was quite squeaky and there was also a lot of impact noise created, so that when one of us was walking around in the bedroom, the impact noise was quite loud in the living room below.

We're therefore looking to soundproof the floor, mainly from impact noise.

1. What would forum members suggest we use to minimise the impact noise? I'm keen to stay well clear of any rubber mats that give off nasty smells - we have put one in another bedroom and need to take it back up again as the smell of the mat permeates the whole room, even through the underlay/carpet. We've got a bit of a blank canvas (other than the plasterboard on the living room ceiling which we're not replacing) so happy to consider best way to do this. We're putting 100mm ProRox SL960 in between the joists, we also have Rockwool roll that we could put in the remaining 100mm height in the joists.

2. A couple of our floorboards have been quite squeaky. What do we need to do going forward to prevent this?

 

[ree]

1. How much difference in mm's is the joist(s)?

2. The floor panels should have been cut tight to the walls. But you will have to work to the rippings now - assuming that all the original flooring is going back in place?

3. there's only one wall in the pics with joist hangers - i dont see the difficulty?

4. Forget the walls are there, imagine that you are only dealing with an open joist floor -
Fix two noggins from joist 1. to joist 2. spaced about 400mm apart.
You could then fix another noggin between the two noggins you've just fixed.
The new noggin would catch and support the edge of the panel that is going back in that position.

5. Do the same on the other wall - the one with the joist hangers - fix noggins between the joists to catch the panel edges.

6. soundproofing is extremely difficult to achieve. Using construction adhesive to glue down the flooring panels, & using white glue in the tongue & grooves might help. Plus you are filling the bays with insulation.
And then perhaps using a carpet with an underlay?

7. Screw 60mm #8 screws at 150mm centres to fix the panels.

 

[spiidey]

1. How much difference in mm's is the joist(s)?

In height terms, the biggest difference between the height of neighbouring joists is +/-5mm (joists at 400mm centres)

2. The floor panels should have been cut tight to the walls. But you will have to work to the rippings now - assuming that all the original flooring is going back in place?

The handyman basically said that his saw couldn't get tight to the walls - I did query this at the time! Should he have cut right to the walls and simply didn't have the right tool (or didn't do the job properly?)?

The original flooring is gone as the panels were glued at the joins, therefore ripped when lifted. We'll be getting new panels for the entire floor.

3. there's only one wall in the pics with joist hangers - i dont see the difficulty?

Sorry for being incredbly dumb but I don't see any joist hangers in any of the pics!! Could you identify which pic?

When I think of joist hangers I'm thinking of metal objects such as those in the link below and I ain't seeing any of them!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j...&sa=X&ei=TngMVcaIDMzjaOH0gLgE&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

4. Forget the walls are there, imagine that you are only dealing with an open joist floor -
Fix two noggins from joist 1. to joist 2. spaced about 400mm apart.
You could then fix another noggin between the two noggins you've just fixed.
The new noggin would catch and support the edge of the panel that is going back in that position.

Ok, so the "new noggin" will effectively run along line "3" in the pic below i.e. be directly underneath the full length of the join of the new floor panels to the existing floor panels?

Ok. So should we use joist hangers to fix the noggins? If so, what kind of joist hanger?

Also, what type of timber and what size of timber should we use?

5. Do the same on the other wall - the one with the joist hangers - fix noggins between the joists to catch the panel edges.

6. soundproofing is extremely difficult to achieve. Using construction adhesive to glue down the flooring panels, & using white glue in the tongue & grooves might help. Plus you are filling the bays with insulation.
And then perhaps using a carpet with an underlay?

Yeah we were planning on using the white glue to glue the tongues/grooves and also use the glue along with acoustic mastic to seal any noticeable joins in the flooring (e.g. where we'll need to cut off the tongue on one of the new panels, when one of these new panels meets one of the existing floor panels).

We are also planning on using a carpet with underlay.

7. Screw 60mm #8 screws at 150mm centres to fix the panels.

In terms of this point, is using screws to fix the floorboards, instead of nails, the way to stop the panels moving and therefore squeaking?

 

[ree]

1. If possible, use some, say 4m or 5mm strips of material to bring the joist levels up to the highest joist. Or screw down a couple of panels without glue just to dry-fit, and test if any significant squeaks or movement can be noticed?

Your bare joists should be firm without any movement or squeaking.

2. Cut the remaining strips of panel tight to the walls - use a hand saw at an angle, and be careful of the cables below.

3. If you look at the "red wall" and follow the joists you should encounter metal joist hangers just below a notched in batten - i presume that thats what i'm seeing in the pic above?

4. If you look at the pic and where it says 3. and pipes cross the joist bay. then like the pipes, thats how your noggins would cross, left to right. Use 100mm x 50mm scant or anything similar.
You can use hangers or skew screw.

Maybe you can DIY this but perhaps it would be better if you called in a local joiner - just saying.

 

[spiidey]

1. If possible, use some, say 4m or 5mm strips of material to bring the joist levels up to the highest joist. Or screw down a couple of panels without glue just to dry-fit, and test if any significant squeaks or movement can be noticed?

Your bare joists should be firm without any movement or squeaking.

2. Cut the remaining strips of panel tight to the walls - use a hand saw at an angle, and be careful of the cables below.

3. If you look at the "red wall" and follow the joists you should encounter metal joist hangers just below a notched in batten - i presume that thats what i'm seeing in the pic above?

4. If you look at the pic and where it says 3. and pipes cross the joist bay. then like the pipes, thats how your noggins would cross, left to right. Use 100mm x 50mm scant or anything similar.
You can use hangers or skew screw.

Maybe you can DIY this but perhaps it would be better if you called in a local joiner - just saying.

Thanks - we're keen to DIY (within reason) so apologies if I'm asking really basic questions. I'm also aware of my limitations and last thing I want is floor collapsing, so really appreciate all your help.

A few follow on questions:-

1. What type of joist hanger should I use?
2. Should I use nails or screws when attaching the joist hanger to both the existing joists and the noggins?
3. What grade of scant timber (if any) do I need - C16?
4. The existing joists are all 200mm in height (60mm wide). Obviously in the areas where there are pipes, we're constrained, but where there aren't pipes, do we need / should we be using scant bigger than 100mm x 50mm?

 

[spiidey]

Anyone able to help with this?

 

[spiidey]

Anyone able to help with this?[/quote

Anyone able to help with this?

 

[IJWS15]

The noggins are to stiffen the floor, they don't really carry any load. The joists carry the floor loading.

100x50 (4"x2" in imperial) as suggested by Ree is fine for noggins.

If you look at the wall edge you will see where the builders put noggins in, don't go smaller than that and you won't go far wrong if you follow that pattern - They are probably just nailed into the joists.

If it was me I'd be taking the skirtings off and removing that strip of chipboard up the side of the room before I re-boarded.

 

[spiidey]

The noggins are to stiffen the floor, they don't really carry any load. The joists carry the floor loading.

100x50 (4"x2" in imperial) as suggested by Ree is fine for noggins.

If you look at the wall edge you will see where the builders put noggins in, don't go smaller than that and you won't go far wrong if you follow that pattern - They are probably just nailed into the joists.

If it was me I'd be taking the skirtings off and removing that strip of chipboard up the side of the room before I re-boarded.

The noggins on the right hand side will be taking load though - as the existing floor has been cut in the middle of the joists. Do I need the timber to be graded to any particular strength (e.g. C16)?

Yeah I think I'll take the skirtings off before reboarding.

In terms of the joist hangers, is there any particular type I should use?

 

[IJWS15]

When you re-bard you should aim to have joints over the joists if possible, it is not the end of the world if you can't with T&G all round boards except at the edges which is why the builders put them at the edge.

 

[spiidey]

When you re-bard you should aim to have joints over the joists if possible, it is not the end of the world if you can't with T&G all round boards except at the edges which is why the builders put them at the edge.

Its going to be almost impossible to get the edge of the boards on the right hand side of the room to sit on an existing joist as the joist at that side is directly under the internal partition to the next room.

I therefore need noggins, firstly at right angles to the joists (i.e. between them), and then a strip at right angles to the noggins and parallel with the joists, to take the edge of a board where it will meet the existing flooring that we can't really cut back any more.

With that in mind, is there any particular type of joist hanger I need? And any specific minimum strength of timber?