Light switch help

[SUNRAY]

The two-way switching is wired as in the third diagram of ericmark in Post#10,
except that
the Line is connected to the switch on the landing and
the Lamp is connected to the Left switch in the hallway.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that

with the Line being available at the Left switch - for other uses.

Since the Hallway light and the Outside light are both switching correctly,

yes

the Line wire supplied from the landing must be the Red-tape identified wire now connected to L1 of the Centre switch in the hallway.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that

(The Common connections of the two two-way switches are connected by the single Brown (White sheathed) wire labeled as L at the hallway switch.)

I assume so

The wire to the landing Light must be the Brown wire labeled A in L2 of the Left switch.

I assume so and also assume the brown in L1 is its T&E partner

The Red-taped Brown wire now in L1 of the Left switch should be moved and joined with A in L2 of the Left switch
and
a new Link wire installed between L1 of the Left switch and L1 of the Centre switch.

That is where you have lost me completely.

As the two 1 way switches are declared as working correctly why should they be altered?
The T&E with red markers: A) terminated in L1 of centre and COM of right makes me assume it's the L supply and B) terminated in COM makes me assume it's hall SL and the single sheathed in right L1 makes me assume it's outside SL.

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While the above should "work",
the wiring/connections would be more "logical" if all of the following were done, instead!

I THINK the following is erroneous

The Red-taped Brown wire now in L1 of the Left switch should be moved and joined with A in L2 of the Left switch (as above).
The Red-taped Brown wire (in coming Line) in L1 of the Centre switch should be moved to L1 of the Left switch.

The "Link" from Common of the Right switch to L1 of the Centre switch should be removed
and
the Brown Wire (Hallway Light) in the Common of the Centre switch should be moved to L1 of the Centre switch.

A new "Link" between L1 of the Left switch (in-coming Line) to the Common of the Centre switch should be installed
with
a new "Link" also installed between the Common of the Centre switch
and
the Common of the Right switch.
These latter two "Links" connect the (in-coming) Line from L1 of the Left switch to the Common terminals of the Centre and Right switches.

My ASSUMPTIONS are something like this:

However we know the upstairs light doesn't work. So either there is a fault in the cable or a switch OR I may be barking up the wrong conduit completely.

I have been holding off commenting until testing with a meter is being undertaken so we ACTUALLY KNOW what's what.


I MUST STRESS THESE ARE MY ASSUMPTIONS/GUESSES AND NOT ADVICE FOR THE REPAIR until the buzzing out has been completed

 

[Mystic255]

However we know the upstairs light doesn't work. So either there is a fault in the cable or a switch OR I may be barking up the wrong conduit completely.

I have been holding off commenting until testing with a meter is being undertaken so we ACTUALLY KNOW what's what.


I MUST STRESS THESE ARE MY ASSUMPTIONS/GUESSES AND NOT ADVICE FOR THE REPAIR until the buzzing out has been completed

Thanks for the input. I've never tested light switches/lighting with a meter before. Is the best way to do it as ericmark described with a connector block or can I test with the wires still in the switch?

Edit: Also just to clarify, the upstairs light does work, bit only if both the landing switch and hallway swich are set to on position.

 

[ebee]

Edit: Also just to clarify, the upstairs light does work, bit only if both the landing switch and hallway swich are set to on position.

That gives another clue as to the problem,So it works partially therefore incorrectly

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks for the input. I've never tested light switches/lighting with a meter before. Is the best way to do it as ericmark described with a connector block or can I test with the wires still in the switch?

Edit: Also just to clarify, the upstairs light does work, bit only if both the landing switch and hallway swich are set to on position.

Personally I would test with the wires connected as they are, however I've been doing stuff like this for 60 years and understand the confusion generated by the switches linking wires together.

Initially I'd suggest placing the 3 wires arrowed red in choc block for the first tests, then the 3 arrowed green will give full isolation.

Yes I realise there is some functionality of the 2way light. which is why I reckon there is a fault rather than mistakes. BUT I MAY BE VERY WRONG

 

[SUNRAY]

Personally I would test with the wires connected as they are, however I've been doing stuff like this for 60 years and understand the confusion generated by the switches linking wires together.

Initially I'd suggest placing the 3 wires arrowed red in choc block for the first tests, then the 3 arrowed green will give full isolation.View attachment 354367

Yes I realise there is some functionality of the 2way light. which is why I reckon there is a fault rather than mistakes. BUT I MAY BE VERY WRONG

Scrub this for now, gotta go - I'll be back in an hour or so with different advice.

 

[SUNRAY]

Sorry I have family things on, probably not getting back here tonight.

I don't think you need to look at the 2 righthand switches or any of their wiring, by the way well done to your father for marking as much as he did; white for left, red for middle & yellow for right

 

[FrodoOne]

SUNRAY wrote the following and my comments are in italics.:-

The two-way switching is wired as in the third diagram of ericmark in Post#10,
except that
the Line is connected to the switch on the landing and
the Lamp is connected to the Left switch in the hallway.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that
(There are two Brown wires in Terminal 1 on the Landing Switch, one Brown wire in Terminal 2, White Sheathed wire in Common.
No wire available for light.
Line voltage is available from one Red-taped Brown wire (of a pair) at the Centre switch in hallway.)

with the Line being available at the Left switch - for other uses.

Since the Hallway light and the Outside light are both switching correctly,

yes

the Line wire supplied from the landing must be the Red-tape identified wire now connected to L1 of the Centre switch in the hallway.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that
(It is one of a Pair - for the Two-Way switching - and the other two lights are "operating" correctly,
so that is the wire which must be "feeding" them - see above.)

(The Common connections of the two two-way switches are connected by the single Brown (White sheathed) wire labeled as L at the hallway switch.)

I assume so
(Since the other White Sheathed wire is now "operating" the "Outside" light)

The wire to the landing Light must be the Brown wire labeled A in L2 of the Left switch.

I assume so and also assume the brown in L1 is its T&E partner

The Red-taped Brown wire now in L1 of the Left switch should be moved and joined with A in L2 of the Left switch
and
a new Link wire installed between L1 of the Left switch and L1 of the Centre switch.

That is where you have lost me completely.
(The Line is now being "fed" via the Red-taped Brown wire now in L1 of the Centre switch - with a link to the Common of the Right switch, for the other two Lights.
It is necessary for the Line also to connect to one of the non-common Terminals of the Two-way switch,
with the wire to the Light
and
the other one of the Two-Way "pair" connected together in the other Terminal.}
As the two 1 way switches are declared as working correctly why should they be altered?
(No real need - except [as I wrote]
"The wiring/connections would be more "logical" if all of the following were done, instead!")

 

[SUNRAY]

Hi all,

I’m looking for some help with some light switch wiring at my parents. Dad replaced a switch and can’t get it working correctly.

Setup is as follows.

3 gang switch in the downstairs hallway. Single gang switch on the landing upstairs.

The hallway switch controls an outside light, the hallway light and the landing light.

The problem is the landing light isn’t working as expected. The landing light must be in the on position for the hall switch to work.

E.g with the landing switch set to on, the switch in the hall turns the landing light on and off.

Parents go to bed and turn off the landing switch. The landing light goes off as expected but the switch in the hall no longer controls the landing light at all.

I’ve attached a pic of the current wiring. He labelled these himself with some tape prior to changing the switch but must have made an error as it’s not right.

Something simple I’m sure so any help much appreciated.

Private message sent, check your inbox.

 

[SUNRAY]

SUNRAY wrote the following and my comments are in italics.:-

I'm not sure how you arrived at that
(There are two Brown wires in Terminal 1 on the Landing Switch, one Brown wire in Terminal 2, White Sheathed wire in Common.
No wire available for light.
Line voltage is available from one Red-taped Brown wire (of a pair) at the Centre switch in hallway.)



yes

I'm not sure how you arrived at that
(It is one of a Pair - for the Two-Way switching - and the other two lights are "operating" correctly,
so that is the wire which must be "feeding" them - see above.)

I assume so
(Since the other White Sheathed wire is now "operating" the "Outside" light)

I assume so and also assume the brown in L1 is its T&E partner

That is where you have lost me completely.
(The Line is now being "fed" via the Red-taped Brown wire now in L1 of the Centre switch - with a link to the Common of the Right switch, for the other two Lights.
It is necessary for the Line also to connect to one of the non-common Terminals of the Two-way switch,
with the wire to the Light
and
the other one of the Two-Way "pair" connected together in the other Terminal.}
As the two 1 way switches are declared as working correctly why should they be altered?
(No real need - except [as I wrote]
"The wiring/connections would be more "logical" if all of the following were done, instead!")

Check the pictures again and reassess please.
4 browns upstairs
Red marked wires nothing to do with left switch

 

[Mystic255]

Thanks all. Hoping to get down to my dads this weekend and have a look.

Ill keep an eye here incase any more tips pop in over the next day or 2.

 

[ebee]

In the days of singles (or singles and earth) it was not uncommon for for a L feed to be linked to form the L feed to a two gang/three gang switch etc together at Com`s connections or indeed sometimes at L1 or L2 either to save using an extra cable, this can also be done similarly with twin and earth or three core and earth similarly .
This is another reason why the permutations get so complicated.
When there is a mix and match situation within one installation there can be complications such that even a knowledgeable/qualified electrician using all the correct test gear can take a little while to suss it out.
That is before you add yet another complication like lamp failure/loose connections in the switch positions or some remote junction box or cable damage.
Note - not all switches are marked Com/L1/L2 and not all switches are marked L1/L2/L3 and not all switches adopt the same protocol for which terminal is the one way position either.
All good fun.

 

[Mystic255]

The wire to the landing Light must be the Brown wire labeled A in L2 of the Left switch.

The Red-taped Brown wire now in L1 of the Left switch should be moved and joined with A in L2 of the Left switch
and
a new Link wire installed between L1 of the Left switch and L1 of the Centre switch.

Hi,

A quick update. I didn’t have a lot of time to check this today, but I did try the above as it was the quickest thing to try in the time I had.

Suffice to day, it didn’t work, It resulted in the landing light being permanently on and neither the landing or hall switch operated it.

Hoping to do some testing with a meter tomorrow all being well.

 

[Mystic255]

Hi,

A quick update. I didn’t have a lot of time to check this today, but I did try the above as it was the quickest thing to try in the time I had.

Suffice to day, it didn’t work, It resulted in the landing light being permanently on and neither the landing or hall switch operated it.

Hoping to do some testing with a meter tomorrow all being well.

I should also add that the hall and outside switches worked as normal after the change but obvs no good when the landing light was on permanently.

 

[SUNRAY]

I should also add that the hall and outside switches worked as normal after the change but obvs no good when the landing light was on permanently.

I trust you have restored it to the previous operational condition.

 

[Mystic255]

I trust you have restored it to the previous operational condition.

I have indeed. Hoping to get another go at it tomorrow all being well. Thanks.