Low Loss Header

[Sider]

Doitall wrote

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/thescruff/Imgp1309m.jpg

Looking at the image again I can see where Doitall went wrong.
The wall on the right hand side of the image should not have had any pipe fixed to it at all.
The large pipe in the corner should have been sited horizontally on the same wall as the boilers.
It may have needed to be a little shorter but a good angle grinder would soon have sorted that out.
The flow and returns from the boilers would then have entered from the bottom side of this pipe.
The flow and returns to the system would be on top of this pipe leaving hand valved stubs for future expansion of the system.
Simple and neat and no need for the horizontal pipes that are seen on the right hand side of the image.

 

[Sider]

Onetap wrote

ii) preventing mixing in the header.

So how would you avoid this and why would it be an issue ??.
Impossible I would guess.

 

[doitall]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/thescruff/Imgp1309m.jpg

Looking at the image again I can see where Doitall went wrong.
The wall on the right hand side of the image should not have had any pipe fixed to it at all.
The large pipe in the corner should have been sited horizontally on the same wall as the boilers.
It may have needed to be a little shorter but a good angle grinder would soon have sorted that out.
The flow and returns from the boilers would then have entered from the bottom side of this pipe.
The flow and returns to the system would be on top of this pipe leaving hand valved stubs for future expansion of the system.
Simple and neat and no need for the horizontal pipes that are seen on the right hand side of the image.

Doitall didn't go wrong, it was designed as a vertical header for the maximum flow through the boilers, note to the two small shunt pumps to prevent lockout, even more critical with bigger boilers.

Why would I want to cut it off with an angle grinder when it was purpose made that length, we didn't buy it, we cut the pipe and welded it up in the workshop.

The horizontal pipes were installed to take the weight of the pumps, and to prevent the larger pumps stopping the smaller ones, as I said fixings were a problem, also at the time there was limited space available.

To answer the mixing in the header yes it will to prevent the boiler lockout.

In this install there is no primary circuit.

The job was inspected and giving a seal of approval by the HVCA.

 

[Sider]

Onetap wrote

you'd have to fill in the details from elsewhere

From experience you mean or designer blueprints.

 

[Sider]

Doitall wrote

Doitall didn't go wrong, it was designed as a vertical header for the maximum flow through the boilers,

So will a horizontal pipe give less flow through the boiler.?

note to the two small shunt pumps to prevent lockout, even more critical with bigger boilers.

Are these the pumps sited below the boilers ?.
Are these not the primary pumps ?
The only other pumps visible are a large one and small one on the right side of the image.

To answer the mixing in the header yes it will to prevent the boiler lockout.

In other words water returning from the system that is cooler than the water generated by the boiler mixing together.

In this install there is no primary circuit.

Surely the pipework between the boilers and the vertical header is the primary system.

 

[simond]

Would anyone be kind enough to give more details about the CIBSE guide book, I'd like to get a copy?

 

[Onetap]

Would anyone be kind enough to give more details about the CIBSE guide book, I'd like to get a copy?

http://www.cibse.org/index.cfm?go=publications.view&PubID=8&L1=164

I wouldn't recommend buying it, it's very expensive and only has a few pages about this. Try to get a look at a copy in a library, so you know what you're buying.

A better buy would be.........

http://www.heatinghelp.com/shopcart/product.cfm?category=2-44

or even
http://www.heatinghelp.com/shopcart/product.cfm?category=2-166
Those are both in US units, which might cause problems.

The former is very good, written in plain English, rather than going into learned tome/big word mode like UK authors tend to.
I haven't read the latter, been meaning to buy a copy. He knows his stuff.

 

[simond]

Thanks, Onetap, I will look this up.

 

[doitall]

Simon,

get in touch with Keston, I pretty sure they had something on CD at one time.

http://www.keston.co.uk/downloads/pdf/comm-b-old01.pdf

 

[simond]

Thanks Doitall

I have now looked at this and it has some nice diagrams. The book recommended by One Tap looks really good too.

I might ask Keston for a CD - but it will be a sad day when my firm fits one of their boilers

 

[doitall]

Thanks Doitall

I have now looked at this and it has some nice diagrams. The book recommended by One Tap looks really good too.

I might ask Keston for a CD - but it will be a sad day when my firm fits one of their boilers

Nothing wrong with their industrial boilers

 

[simond]

That's fine, we can both benefit.

You can put them in, I'll take them out

 

[Sider]

Doitall.
Will those books show me the answers to the questions I popped at you earlier ?.

 

[doitall]

Doitall.
Will those books show me the answers to the questions I popped at you earlier ?.

I don't know I don't read books

The Keston link will tell you quite a lot.

If not I will try and answer them for you.

 

[Sider]

Doitall wrote

If not I will try and answer them for you.

Awesome.


I have took the liberty of pasting this earlier reply by your goodself.

note to the two small shunt pumps to prevent lockout, even more critical with bigger boilers.

Are these pumps just stealing water from the big pump and returning some of the flow water back to the return ?.
Would fitting shunt pumps not be the case with the bigger "large water" content boilers to prevent condensation .

I dont understand why the boiler needs to be prevented from "lockout".
I shall assume you mean the boiler stat switching the boiler off.
Surely if the system is only heating up then how can a over heat situation occur and push the boiler into lockout ?.
Or have I got this "lock out" you mention confused with something else. ?