Mains supply to Shed

[kev78]

Garage supply was installed and certificated by a spark so it had better be suitable.

Thanks for your replies ban all sheds - i can only assume you are fed up with DIYers. I will of course as stated not be doing any work without a spark looking at it and telling me if he is happy for me to do so which i'm sure i already said but if not i apologise. The freezer will remain in the garage where it is now

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Garage supply was installed and certificated by a spark so it had better be suitable.

See what the next one has to say.

And even if it was suitable before, the whole design of it may have to be changed if you have a TN-C-S supply and plumbing in the shed.

Thanks for your replies ban all sheds - i can only assume you are fed up with DIYers.

No.

I will of course as stated not be doing any work without a spark looking at it and telling me if he is happy for me to do so which i'm sure i already said but if not i apologise.

Yes, you said that, but that is not consistent with the questions you are asking here, because nothing that anybody says, or suggests, or advises, nor any decisions you make on the basis of answers you get here, will make any difference to what your electrician wants or decides.

You can't do anything without his involvement, so you might as well get on with finding one.

The freezer will remain in the garage where it is now

Sorry - missed that.

 

[kev78]

An educated opinion was what i was wanting.

My questions suggest i am wanting an opinion and nothing more, you have read between the lines and come up with a different interpretation i think.

The experts on this forum are well versed in the regulations and should easily tell me their opinion based on the regulations.

I wasnt aware that an installation that was completed in the last 2 years could be out of date already and need replacing

 

[kev78]

Sorry Steve forgot to say thanks.

Looks like it might be possible

A bit concerned that the conduit may not be suitable as it was professionally installed

 

[Steve]

I wasnt aware that an installation that was completed in the last 2 years could be out of date already and need replacing

As far as I know, it was never acceptable to run twin and earth in plastic conduit down a garden (though many do it, I wouldnt expect it of an electrician)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My questions suggest i am wanting an opinion and nothing more, you have read between the lines and come up with a different interpretation i think.

You are missing the point. Our opinions don't matter because we are not doing or certifying the work.

The experts on this forum are well versed in the regulations and should easily tell me their opinion based on the regulations.

It doesn't matter how well versed we are, or how sound our opinions are, we are not doing or certifying the work.

I wasnt aware that an installation that was completed in the last 2 years could be out of date already and need replacing

1) As Steve said, you may have something that was never OK, not that something has changed in the last 2 years.

2) If it was done 2 years ago then, sadly, that was well within the timeframe for it to have been done by an NVQ Domestic Installer who didn't know what he was doing, not a proper electrician.

3) And even if neither of those possibilities applies you may still need it all changed anyway if you are going to have a combination of extraneous-conductive-parts in the shed and a TN-C-S supply. See http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs...matters_electrical_installations_outdoors.pdf

 

[kev78]

ok ban all sheds you have made your point.

As for being able to hire an electrician who was not versed in the regulations for the feed to the garage i am amazed. all the fuss that is made about paying for a tradesman and now we find out that if it was 2 years ago it doesnt count because the spark may have been not suitably qualified but still able to trade. doesn't look good if someones house was rewired over 2 years ago.

Anyhows thanks for your time, best i get busy with a sledge hammer and knock down my entire street because it is obviously a danger to society in general - it was all built over 100 years ago so it will probably implode on itself due to all the dodgy DIY and unqualified sparks hey b- a-s

Oh no its too late there all falling over luckily i ran out of mine just before it collapsed. now theres just a big pile of sparking rubble with 2 year old electrician receipts fluttering in the breeze - damn you NVQ.
Best i go live in the shed away from all the dangerous houses.

 

[big-all]

The loads are going to be a washer and dryer in the shed plus the occasional power tool usage

Was really hoping to be able to chop the supply to the garage and using a junction box or other suitable outdoor device split the supply as this would save about 20 metres of wiring.

I am wanting the most cost effective way that complies with the regs thats all. As i said i'm not planning a bodge job just the easiest and best solution using a qualified spark.

a washer can be 13 amps as can be tumble dryer if you have them running together so 26 amps plus lighting is a heck off a load over any distance

 

[bongos]

As for being able to hire an electrician who was not versed in the regulations for the feed to the garage i am amazed. all the fuss that is made about paying for a tradesman and now we find out that if it was 2 years ago it doesnt count because the spark may have been not suitably qualified but still able to trade. doesn't look good if someones house was rewired over 2 years ago.

Hi Kev. As suggested the best way to get an idea of what needs doing might be to contact a few sparks and see what they say.

You may be able to use the existing cable but this does sound unlikely if you want to have tumble dryers/washing machines/freezers etc in the shed.

Unfortunately as Steve has already highlighted, installing twin & earth cable in plastic conduit in the ground was never acceptable practice. You really should replace the cable anyway if this is the installation method but due to it not being big enough to supply your new requirements you might end up replacing it anyway.

Are you able to post some pics of your existing setup? It certainly wants to be done properly for your safety but also to avoid you having to come back to the house and reset the breaker if something in the shed is causing it to trip. Especially if all your circuits are off one RCD.

 

[kev78]

thanks guys

The cable outdoors is never below ground if that makes a difference - it is secured to the house and garden walls and enters the garage at around 7 feet up straight through the wall.

Taken pics but cant get them to load up so will try again later

The cable going to the garage is thicker than the one feeding the house.

 

[kev78]

house

• kev78
• 1 Dec 2009
• 1

garage

• kev78
• 1 Dec 2009
• 1

suppy cable to garage

• kev78
• 1 Dec 2009
• 1

RCD in the house is 30mA and a B40 in the house supplying the garage

 

[Steve]

Doncaster cables At least he had some class. Sector stuff is awful (so I'm lead to believe)

On the main CU in the house, the switch at the far left, the big one, there is a number written on it, with mA after it. What is this number?

I take it this was all done at the same time?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As for being able to hire an electrician who was not versed in the regulations for the feed to the garage i am amazed. all the fuss that is made about paying for a tradesman and now we find out that if it was 2 years ago it doesnt count because the spark may have been not suitably qualified but still able to trade. doesn't look good if someones house was rewired over 2 years ago.

Could have been 2 days ago. The rot started shortly after Part P was introduced in 2005, when NICEIC, that flag-waver for electrical safety and consumer interests decided that they could greatly increase their revenue if they started admitting people as long as they knew which end of a screwdriver to hold and had a reading age of 12 or more...

Anyhows thanks for your time, best i get busy with a sledge hammer and knock down my entire street because it is obviously a danger to society in general - it was all built over 100 years ago so it will probably implode on itself due to all the dodgy DIY and unqualified sparks hey b- a-s

Oh no its too late there all falling over luckily i ran out of mine just before it collapsed. now theres just a big pile of sparking rubble with 2 year old electrician receipts fluttering in the breeze - damn you NVQ.
Best i go live in the shed away from all the dangerous houses.

I'm just telling you how it is, and how you shouldn't be utterly surprised if you find that the job done 2 years ago was not up to scratch (and it sounds like that might be the case), and how even if it was OK it may now need changing anyway either because of the new load or because of TN-C-S export issues which did not apply before because your garage has no extraneous-conductive-parts.

 

[kev78]

30 mA steve.

Shame you think the gear that was used isn't good. Work was all done at the same time. I'll have a look for spur marks on the floorboards later

 

[kev78]

I'm just telling you how it is, and how you shouldn't be utterly surprised if you find that the job done 2 years ago was not up to scratch (and it sounds like that might be the case), and how even if it was OK it may now need changing anyway either because of the new load or because of TN-C-S export issues which did not apply before because your garage has no extraneous-conductive-parts.

If no work is done using the garage wiring but taken from the house consumer unit instead then it still wont apply regardless of TN-C-S export issues.

Looks like i'll be getting a new feed from the consumer unit through the house and out of the back wall if all the new regs will apply to a modification to the garage cct.