Major Rewire of My New Flat

Are these:

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separate, i.e. emerging from the bottom of the service head, or do they come out of a split in the sheath of the main cable?

NB - please be extraordinarily careful when poking around to see... :eek:
 
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That cut-off hanging wire

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looks to me as if it might have been the earth, especially if it is a separate wire taped onto the neutral tail. If you can scrape off the white paint and tape, it may be either uninsulated, or green, or green and yellow.


edited to say, B-A-S has it. This horrible old installation is gettting quiter interesting!
 
It looks as someone has been fiddling with the REC incoming cables. Give your REC a call and ask them to check it out urgently.
 
I've just contacted my distribution network and explained the problem. The lady said that she'd arrange for an engineer to come out and look and if one is required fit a proper earth. She said it would cost £31 or something for the installation and ould take 5 to 6 weeks! :eek:

I'll also ask my friend (who works for meter plus) about the problems with the tails etc. and get him to take a look.
 
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You shouldn't wait 5-6 weeks for it to be sorted out - you could have a dangerous installation right now.

£31 is a good price, but you might be better off paying more to an electrician who can come out quickly.
 
tell rec there's exposed wires and they can be touched at little child level.

Then ask them to confirm 5-6 weeks and this fact in a letter. Me thinks they will come out sooner.
 
Turns out there is an earth rod after all... but it isn't connected to anything!!!

There are two earths running into the cu as far as i can tell at the minute. One is connected to the mains gas pipe and the other runs towards the kitchen (not found where it goes yet.

The exposed wires are not split directly into the supply cable but are taped up with it as it enters the service head.

Also i noticed that the stickers on the service head have been split at one time or another but the metal pins are intact. Should i point that out also to the REC?

Thanks again for all your help on this dodgy installation.

DSCN0881.JPG
 
JohnD said:
Thanks for quick response! Glad to see it has at least got an RCD, though you ought to test it, and without a proper earth it may not work well. You press the little grey button and that diagonal lever will pop round about a quarter of a turn, to reset you turn it back.

Thhe two incomers to the cable head, is it one going in from the side and one from the bottom? Can you see them joining together somewhere, perhaps in a thick sheath or conduit? The one going in from the botton looks as if it has a thinner wire going in with it, is that right and can you see where it goes, and what colour under the white paint? Do they appear to be covered in glossy PVC under the paint, or is it a rubbery or tarry material? In your pic they look to be fatter than your new meter tails, which is good.

You mentioned that is is a flat, possibly the other floors have their own mains soming in from the street, or possibly they all gather together, perhaps in the hall or cellar - do you know? What floor are you on? It is certainly an old installation and overdue for renewal. The tails from the incomer to the meter have been stripped back too far (the grey sheathing ought to continue into the enclosure) so you could ask your supplier to replace them next time tou are having work done.

Tried testing the rcd... pressed the putton... NOTHING just a horrible noise and a smell of burning electrics. Not touching THAT again!

The two incomers don't meet anywhere as far as i can tell. They go in opposite directions and i'd say it is a rubbery material. The one coming into the bottom of the service head actually runs to the rust piece of metal that you can see behind the earth rod in the previous post. I don't know where that heads of to yet.

It is a ground floor flat with only one flat upstairs. I'm not sure where their meter is although there is a meter box at ground level outside but not sure if its gas or electricty... will ask them though.

Thanks again

Chris
 
Point of interest - have any of the old hands seen a service head arrangement like this; is it possible that the cable going into the service head from the bottom might be a P+N, supply, and the one out of the side might be going away to feed the upstairs flat?



davas said:
There are two earths running into the cu as far as i can tell at the minute. One is connected to the mains gas pipe and the other runs towards the kitchen (not found where it goes yet.

It very likely goes to the incoming water main, should be attached at the earliest point where it comes imto the building.
 
JohnD said:
Point of interest - have any of the old hands seen a service head arrangement like this; is it possible that the cable going into the service head from the bottom might be a P+N, supply, and the one out of the side might be going away to feed the upstairs flat?

The one leaving the side does head towards the meter box i mentioned before so that would make sense from a wire-routing point of view.
 
Latest update:

I rang NEDL (my rec) and informed them of the exposed wires at child height and they indeed granted me an emergancy call out. So when the nice fella turned up i explained the problems etc.

1. He diagnosed the exposed cables as an earthing point. He tested the impedance (not sure if that's the right term or not) and it tested 0.35 ohms or Mega ohms (again forgive the lack of knowledge over the units). He then taped up the wires. He said that the engineers that are coming out in 5-6 weeks will probably just use that connection to give me an earthing block.

2. I got him to test the earth rod i found under the floor boards. Came out at 70 ohms... he said that was ok for an overhead system (which mine is not). I'm still going to get the earth of the mains though i think.

3. He tidied up the wires around the meter - improved protection of tails and removed the cotton.

4. Tested the earthing of the system as it stands now... came out as 0.4 or around there so it appears the gas main and the water main are doing a good enough job.

5. Concluded that the trip switch on the right of the meter is broken (apparently the earth test on the circuit should have tripped it). I need to have this replaced as soon as possible.

Thanks
 
davas said:
1. He diagnosed the exposed cables as an earthing point. He tested the impedance (not sure if that's the right term or not) and it tested 0.35 ohms or Mega ohms (again forgive the lack of knowledge over the units). He then taped up the wires. He said that the engineers that are coming out in 5-6 weeks will probably just use that connection to give me an earthing block.
Ohms, 0.35 is pretty resonable for TN-S, its allowed to be upto 0.7ohms

2. I got him to test the earth rod i found under the floor boards. Came out at 70 ohms... he said that was ok for an overhead system (which mine is not). I'm still going to get the earth of the mains though i think.
Again, pretty reasonable for a TT earth, of course with a Ze of 70 ohms, its down to the RCD to clear a phase-earth fault

4. Tested the earthing of the system as it stands now... came out as 0.4 or around there so it appears the gas main and the water main are doing a good enough job.

I guess you must be connected to a neighbours TN-S earth through your water and gas supplies, not the correct way to obtain an earth, but better than no earth, and the 0.4 is low enough that the lack of a funtioning RCD won't stop a phase - earth fault being cleared


5. Concluded that the trip switch on the right of the meter is broken (apparently the earth test on the circuit should have tripped it). I need to have this replaced as soon as possible.

Yes, if he did the 26A (?) ELFI test downstream of the RCD, it should have tripped, though ELFI testers usually also have a test option to use a much smaller current to avoid tripping RCDs, though I'm guessing he knows what he was doing, so yeah, replace it ASAP
 
OK... so assuming all goes well with the engineers and then get a TN-C-S arrangement in place will the following spec be adequate for my requirements?

Circuits:
ring main (2.5mm, 32A) 12 Double sockets
kitchen ring (2.5mm, 32A) 6 Double sockets
cooker (10mm, 45A) 45A Switch and 45A Outlet
combi boiler (2.5mm, 16A) *** Still unsure ***
electric shower (10mm, 45A) Allows 10.5kW shower
lighting (1.5mm, 6A)

9 way split load consumer unit
-100A DP Main switch
-80A 30mA RCD
-6 x MCBs (Type B) (2x 6A, 2x 32A, 2x 45A)

Thanks again... I just want to get the spec 'correct'
 
What be your advice in regards to replacing the following...

DSCN0882.JPG


This unit is broken and as such the property does not have a functioning trip. Bearing in mind that i intend to fit a new CU with RCD and switch on board do i need to replace the above unit with a similar item?

This would give me two RCDs where one would be acceptable?

Your comments are appreciated.

Regards

Chris
 
The tails from that old one look old and undersized to me. Personally, I think I would put a 100mA RCD in, and treat it as main switch, with new 25mm tails to the consumer unit. However since you have no disconnector you won't be able to fit it yet. It would be handy until the rest of the installation is replaced, and afterwards will give you whole-house protection, whereas your new CU may have a 30mA RCD for the sockets, and none for the lights and other circuits.

If you can get an electrician to call the same day as your electricity supplier engineer, you might get him to hang around while the tails are swapped, but take the advice of your electrician. You will also need some 16mm earth cable and a main earthing terminal (4 is the smallest size, but you can get an 8 for not much extra money, and one day it will be useful). I don't believe you're going to be able to renew the installation yourself.



BTW, buy yourself the OSG (or borrow one from the library) it will show you typical installations and explain in a very clear way.
 

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