MCB v RCD operation

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Hi
I had an led batten light wired to a fused plug:
On RCD CU: Plugged in wall socket; fuse blew , RCD did not trip..
On MCB CU: plugged in wall socket; fuse didn't blow, MCB tripped.

Then supplier then tells me it was a faulty light.

Photo of CUs attached. I guess reason is short circuit but:
1. explanation of MCB and RCD different behaviours pls? .
2. I assume the RCD would have tripped if there was no fuse in the plug?
 

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MCBs are tripped by overload, earth faults (L-E) and short circuit faults (L-N).
RCDs by detecting residual current in L and N conductors caused by earth faults and earth leakages.

Searching the internet will find far more detailed explanations.
 
The RCD and MCB do completely different things, this is why we have both, the RCD detects imbalance between line and neutral, the MCB detects overload.

The MCB is two devices in one, a thermal overload and a magnetic overload, the latter works with a short circuit, and is set higher than the thermal around 5 times the thermal setting with a B type MCB.
 
MCBs are tripped by overload, earth faults (L-E) and short circuit faults (L-N).
RCDs by detecting residual current in L and N conductors caused by earth faults and earth leakages.

Searching the internet will find far more detailed explanations.
Thanks, what is earth fault L-E?
 
We can have current going live to earth this is an earth fault, and current going between the lives, i.e. line to neutral and up to a set figure this is normal, and over the set figure it is a fault.

We have to test it will trip the protective devices, and we use a loop impedance meter for this, it varies depending on the protective device so a B32 MCB needs to pass more than 32 x 5 amps = 160 amps to trip the magnetic part, we often test the line - neutral in amps called the prospective short circuit current (PSCC) and the line - earth in ohms called the earth loop impedance (ELI) but the two are interlined with ohms law so 230/160 = 1.44Ω to allow for volt drop we give a 5% margin so 1.38Ω is the pass mark.

Where we don't have a TN supply, often the ELI is not good enough to trip the magnetic part of an MCB, so we have to use an RCD as well. But we realise that over 200Ω an earth rod can be unstable, so although it would trip with a much higher ELI we consider 200Ω to be the limit.

The BS7671 has tables, and for a fuse these are the only method,
1745058490555.png
this may have changed as from the 2008 version, so for 3 amp fuse ELI has to be under 16.4Ω, but for an MCB it can be calculated, and the student can better understand where these figures come from when shown the calculation.

In my early years, I made a mistake, I was using MCB's for 110 volt supplies, and I had not considered what earth loop impedance would be required to trip them, so a B16 so 80 amps to trip the magnetic side of the trip, at 55 volts to earth, so ELI needs to be 55/80 = 0.68Ω also of course we have line 1 and line 2, no neutral, so MCB has to be two pole, there were a lot of fires with 110 volt supplies because they did not trip with a short circuit.

The cause of building site fires is often the yellow brick transformer, with has the trip on the supply not the output, so 10 amps at 230 volts = 42 amps at 55 volts and 1.5 mm² cable will not take 42 amps. Here endesth the lesson for today.
 
In simple terms:
The mcb will break circuit when short circuit or current overload .
The rcd will trip when there is difference in currents in L and N.

Still can't understand:
1. In MCB CU: Why didn't fuse blow but MCB tripped?
2. In RCD CU: Why fuse blew but RCD didn't trip?
 
In simple terms:
The mcb will break circuit when short circuit or current overload .
Yes, and earth fault which is the same but technically short circuit is only between L and N.

The rcd will trip when there is difference in currents in L and N.
Yes.

Still can't understand:
1. In MCB CU: Why didn't fuse blow but MCB tripped?
MCBs react quicker.

2. In RCD CU: Why fuse blew but RCD didn't trip?
It must have been an overload or short circuit (L-N).
 
Yes, and earth fault which is the same but technically short circuit is only between L and N.


Yes.


MCBs react quicker.


It must have been an overload or short circuit (L-N).
MCBs reacts quicker to short circuits and over loads?
 
I assume this
1745065793943.png
consumer unit, can't read MCB or RCD size, and note window with third from right unit is this a RCBO. But 5 single module width trips to right are likely not RCD protected, and the 5 single module width trips to left are RCD protected, so those to the left have both over load and leakage, and to the right 4 maybe 5 are not RCD protected, but there should be no circuits not MCB protected, so how did you manage to find.
2. In RCD CU: Why fuse blew but RCD didn't trip?
Something wrong?
 
I assume this View attachment 379428 consumer unit, can't read MCB or RCD size, and note window with third from right unit is this a RCBO. But 5 single module width trips to right are likely not RCD protected, and the 5 single module width trips to left are RCD protected, so those to the left have both over load and leakage, and to the right 4 maybe 5 are not RCD protected, but there should be no circuits not MCB protected, so how did you manage to find.

Something wrong?
You're right third is different. Pic below.
 

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Interesting 10 amp for lighting! In the main, we have ceiling roses rated at 5/6 amp, so normally we would use 6 amps, and a type D so that is 20 times for the magnet part of the trip. So 200 amp to trip it, or an earth loop impedance of 1.035 Ω so it would seem you're limited to around 20 meters of cable, which it not that much.

It seems it is just an MCB not anything special, but type D.

But if there are type C on the non RCD protected, what is on the other side.
 

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