Mcphersons Oil Undercoat , views ?

[michealangelo]

I prefer to use a oil based undercoat under a water or oil finish

At the moment it's seems quite reasonably priced ?

Anyone use it or prefer a different brand

I have used wickes before now rather use a water acrylic undercoat , don't think they cover or sand well

 

[Wayners]

Going over old oil gloss I prefer to use zinsser BIN. It sticks solid but no opacity so after 2 hours apply a coat of acrylic primer.
I have been using BIN aqua as a primer over old gloss and well impressed. Don't half stick with great opacity.
As for oil undercoat it stinks. Cure time is said to be 24h but I think it needs a few days and I could wait that long.
You just got to get used to the different application characteristics of water-based paints.

 

[opps]

I have used waterbased finishes over oil based undercoat in the past, but if you don't wait a couple of days the waterbased top coat may develop fish-eyes because the solvents are still being released.

I am old skool. I can can get a far flatter finish with oil based paints (adding Owatrol oil).

 

[Wayners]

@opps

It's the yellowing within weeks that makes oil based useless.
I glossed mother in laws lounge 2 years ago and it's still brilliant white.

 

[opps]

@opps

It's the yellowing within weeks that makes oil based useless.
I glossed mother in laws lounge 2 years ago and it's still brilliant white.

The 2010 VOC compliant oil based oil based paints did indeed yellow very quickly. After multiple reformulations, they are on par with the pre 2010 paints. But, yeah, in dark rooms they will still yellow.

 

[Wayners]

This is where I'm puzzled.

Manufacturers said years ago there is no improvement or development in oil based paints anymore. All they do is change formula to meet the chemical requirements as law changes. At one point Dulux had a label on tin recommending the waterbased alternative and rep as made it clear the problems with it. They just keep manufacturering as there is a demand for it.

I've not used any in last 10 years even outside

 

[opps]

This is where I'm puzzled.

Manufacturers said years ago there is no improvement or development in oil based paints anymore. All they do is change formula to meet the chemical requirements as law changes. At one point Dulux had a label on tin saying this. They just keep manufacturering as there is a demand for it.

I've not used any in last 10 years even outside

Waterbased paints definitely have some advantages (eg smell, drying times) but, in the main, they are less durable, particularly in areas of high traffic where the oils in our skin make them become soft. I have never used waterbased gloss, but I have seen numerous examples of waterbased eggshell window sills with black marks because the customer puts his (ferrous) keys or coins on the sill.

 

[michealangelo]

Going over old oil gloss I prefer to use zinsser BIN. It sticks solid but no opacity so after 2 hours apply a coat of acrylic primer.
I have been using BIN aqua as a primer over old gloss and well impressed. Don't half stick with great opacity.
As for oil undercoat it stinks. Cure time is said to be 24h but I think it needs a few days and I could wait that long.
You just got to get used to the different application characteristics of water-based paints.

How about Crown PX4 or Bedec All Prime? ......better opacity ? .....then over again or a specific acrylic undercoat ?

Or .....Zinsser cover stain ...2 hour dry .....but oil based ?

I havnt found a water based undercoat with as good blocking power as old school oil undercoat

 

[michealangelo]

I have used waterbased finishes over oil based undercoat in the past, but if you don't wait a couple of days the waterbased top coat may develop fish-eyes because the solvents are still being released.

I am old skool. I can can get a far flatter finish with oil based paints (adding Owatrol oil).

Oil undercoat for me , primer acrylic is fine though

 

[michealangelo]

Waterbased paints definitely have some advantages (eg smell, drying times) but, in the main, they are less durable, particularly in areas of high traffic where the oils in our skin make them become soft. I have never used waterbased gloss, but I have seen numerous examples of waterbased eggshell window sills with black marks because the customer puts his (ferrous) keys or coins on the sill.

As a finishing coat surely it's oil based.....even ones with just a touch of dryer

 

[michealangelo]

I understand the use of water or shellac based sealers and primers

But once that sort of product is on

Going over old oil gloss I prefer to use zinsser BIN. It sticks solid but no opacity so after 2 hours apply a coat of acrylic primer.
I have been using BIN aqua as a primer over old gloss and well impressed. Don't half stick with great opacity.
As for oil undercoat it stinks. Cure time is said to be 24h but I think it needs a few days and I could wait that long.
You just got to get used to the different application characteristics of water-based paints.

What acrylic primer do you normally use after you have given the gloss coat a bin ?

And would you consider bullseye 123 or does it always have to be bin red ?

 

[Wayners]

Leyland acrylic primer is good.
Bullseye 123 is a different product to BIN


Don't stick so well. Won't block knots that grin through old gloss.
Not so fast drying.
Very limited stain blocking.
Much thicker material so have to be more careful applying.
Takes days to fully cure although you can paint over same day. I found it will scratch off a bit Vs BIN that don't

 

[michealangelo]

Leyland acrylic primer is good.
Bullseye 123 is a different product to BIN


Don't stick so well. Won't block knots that grin through old gloss.
Not so fast drying.
Very limited stain blocking.
Much thicker material so have to be more careful applying.
Takes days to fully cure although you can paint over same day. I found it will scratch off a bit Vs BIN that don't

So it's not so tough or as good a blocker .....cheers

 

[michealangelo]

Leyland acrylic primer is good.
Bullseye 123 is a different product to BIN


Don't stick so well. Won't block knots that grin through old gloss.
Not so fast drying.
Very limited stain blocking.
Much thicker material so have to be more careful applying.
Takes days to fully cure although you can paint over same day. I found it will scratch off a bit Vs BIN that don't

And leyland , mcphersons ...in both acrylic and oil ... seems to be a lot less cost than crown , dulux or johnstones

I do find that Crown PX4 good though to be far

 

[opps]

As a finishing coat surely it's oil based.....even ones with just a touch of dryer

I spent many years painting raw MDF cabinets for a living. I would use the cheap Leyland acrylic primer and the sand most of it away until I had removed the manufacturing score marks.



I then followed up with two coats of oil based eggshell. In 20 years, I only had two customers insist on waterbased finishes. I had to use oil based primer to lock out the suction and then two coats of the waterbased eggshell. I had to use quite a lot of Floetrol to get the same quality of finish that I could achieve with oil based paints.

Apropos dryers. I never used them before 2010, but I often do now. Not always though.