Mega Flo vs Thermal store

[gaswizzard]

No need to, any pipefitter knows you do not fit a system with just elbows.

Mmmm , i've always used bends/elbows on steel pipework , gonna go purchase a hydraulic bending machine tomorow , or maybe just pack it with sand & bend it over the vice.

You are a complete fool , most of the guys you are arguing with do this for a living day in & day out , are you really saying these guys are talking BS?..please....

 

[bell824]

aint it amazing a guy with so much experience in these things has posted so many time with so little thanks.

on another thought he wishes to stand in an open forum and argue with highly experienced and qualified engineers.
amazing this one god forbid he really is qualified and filters his way through to the rest of us.

bending steel pipe and using inferior insultion to protect customers hands not to mention the fact that is it was on solar it could probably melt in stagnation but hey ho at least it bends well and only cost £1 a meter of the shelf.

yehah ride her home cowboy.

 

[indus]

Jonas, I know this is an open forum and I can't stop anybody posting on here but may I politely request that you stop posting here? Don't take this the wrong way but I've decided that I will not be following any advice you give so it really is a waste of your time.

From my own point of view your posts distract from the real issue I have which is to resolve my problem.

If your posts antagonise people (whose advice I would appreciate) so much that they stop posting then I've lost out on a serious resource of expertise.

So, with the greatest respect, would you kindly ignore this thread please?

 

[indus]

I called around a local long established company that came recommended. He has had a look around and said he needs to do some calcs to see what he would recommend. He was also talking about perhaps two Mega Flows, a large one and a small one

Interesting, dunno why !
Perhaps he's still thinking slow reheat via coil - and that means you need a small one for fast reheat plus a bigger one for capacity.

He also mentioned that he felt something was not working properly in the current set up and thought it might be the blending valve that was faulty. So he suggested I try replacing that in case that resolves my biggest issue (ie can't get hot water out of two outlets at the same time.

Did you ever try the suggested test - see if the pipe coming out of the store (ie between the store and blending valve) stays hot when using two outlets ?

He also mentioned, as one of the suggested items should i decide to rip it all out and start again, to install some kind of Grundfos pump that boosts mains pressure. Is this a good idea?

No idea, as per earlier postings, you need to determine what your pressure/flow capacity is from the supply.

It should be fairly obvious that the available pressure will drop as you draw off flow - due to the flow resistance in the pipes and fittings. If (and only if) you can get plenty of flow, but not at good pressure, then a booster pump would help. If you can't get enough flow (even out of an open ended pipe with effectively zero pressure) then a booster pump won't help all that much.

You need to measure your supply capability. Only then can you make informed decisions.

Hi Simon

As soon as the guy mentioned that the blending valve might be the issue I thought of the test you told me to do! I'm going to do it tommorrow without fail.

When I do the test

1) If the hot water pipe as it first leaves the TS remains hot but water from the outlets turns cold does that mean the blending valve might be faulty?

2) If the same hot water pipe turns cold when the outlets are opened (and the boiler fires up and reaches temp) does this mean that the fault lies with the TS? (Either it is 'knackered' or was never up to the job)


Is this about right?

PS, I will also measure my flow tommorrow without fail!

Thanks again to everybody for their help so far

 

[indus]

I've had a quick look on tinternet and can't find any useful info on how to measure my flow rate.

Could somebdy please tell me how to do it and which floor the outlet should be on?

Many thanks

 

[JonasX]

I've had a quick look on tinternet and can't find any useful info on how to measure my flow rate.

Could somebdy please tell me how to do it and which floor the outlet should be on?

Many thanks

use a tap near to the incoming main. Fill a bucket full on and time it.

 

[JonasX]

inferior insultion to protect customers hands not to mention the fact that is it was on solar

ATAG recommend max 60C inlet temp. It appears their washers do not disintegrate on the hot outlet side. Put solar with more than 60C into the boiler and you are asking for trouble.

You don't need to have fitted one in to know that.

 

[SimonH2]

1) If the hot water pipe as it first leaves the TS remains hot but water from the outlets turns cold does that mean the blending valve might be faulty?

Yes

2) If the same hot water pipe turns cold when the outlets are opened (and the boiler fires up and reaches temp) does this mean that the fault lies with the TS? (Either it is 'knackered' or was never up to the job)

Yes

I've had a quick look on tinternet and can't find any useful info on how to measure my flow rate.

Could somebdy please tell me how to do it and which floor the outlet should be on?

use a tap near to the incoming main. Fill a bucket full on and time it.

That alone might not tell you the whole story - if it's (say) a 3/4" supply, and only a 1/2" tap then the tap will be a considerable restriction to the flow. Also, if your internal plumbing immediately reduces in size, then that may also be a restriction.

If you have a meter, then you could turn on all the cold taps together, and time how long the meter takes to measure a set quantity. The easiest way to do this without wasting a huge amount of water is to turn off the incoming stopcock, go round turning on the cold taps, then turn on the stopcock to do the measurement.

What this won't tell you is what flow rate you can get while maintaining a certain pressure.
For that, you'd need a pressure gauge on the system, then go round turning on taps until you dropped to the minimum pressure you would find acceptable - and then measure the total flow (either by using the water meter, or measuring the flow at each tap with a bucket and stopwatch).

 

[SimonH2]

Oh yes, one way of eliminating your internal plumbing as a factor would be to disconnect your internal pipework from the stop cock, and attach a length of reasonably large pipe which is long enough to reach outside to a drain (or whatever). Then see what flow rate you can get out of it.

I recall when I was "somewhat younger" a man from the water board coming round. There's been a burst in the street, and as we were the only ones home we got all the dirt they got into the pipe while they were fixing it. He measured the flow rate in just that manner, but was also using a hand pump to force backflow to try and shift some of the grit that was restricting our supply (I guess it had built up in the stop taps).

 

[JonasX]

use a tap near to the incoming main. Fill a bucket full on and time it.

That alone might not tell you the whole story - if it's (say) a 3/4" supply, and only a 1/2" tap then the tap will be a considerable restriction to the flow.

Of course that is only "good" guide. Replacing a stop tap with full bore valves, getting rid of elbows for bends, enlarging the pipe after the stop tap, all will improve flow. Depending on restrictions the flow may improve quite a bit, but usually not that much. What it may do is balance the water system better when a dedicated 22mm pipe is taken from stop tap to cylinder, combi, etc - even if the mains pipe is 15mm.

I know that removing a free-flowing water meter did improve the flow rate considerably when I tested recently. But you cannot get rid of one once it is in.

22mm Full flow-valves make a difference.

 

[DeltaT2]

No need to, any pipefitter knows you do not fit a system with just elbows.

Mmmm , i've always used bends/elbows on steel pipework , gonna go purchase a hydraulic bending machine tomorow , or maybe just pack it with sand & bend it over the vice.

You are a complete fool , most of the guys you are arguing with do this for a living day in & day out , are you really saying these guys are talking BS?..please....

100% agree, done Skools, Hospitals & Factories - all sorts of commercial stuff, always use bends or elbows on steel pipe, the only time you would use a bender is for small kicks, offsets or cross-overs.

At least everyone can now see JonasX (aka Anus Sludge Bucket, Dr Drivel, Big Burner, Water Systems....etc, etc) for what he is; a complete idoit, that knows nothing of the Plumbing & Heating trade...........

 

[shambolic]

This still going! Meanwhile OP still has poor hw

 

[DeltaT2]

This still going! Meanwhile OP still has poor hw

The poor guy has been drawn into Dr Drivel's web............

 

[SimonH2]

View media item 27495

Nice tidy work mate.

I was thinking that myself.
Elbows are OK as long as the design allows for it - turbulence and pressure drop are higher than for a swept bend (which is why bends are normally preferred, as well as reducing the number of joints). But that's a neat job and having tried to insulate pipes I know how much work (and care, and desire to make it look right) is needed to make it look like that.

 

[Biggles..]

Ta, for those that have some experience of the industry and not just what's wrote on google,the inlet temp to my ATAG can never achieve 60,it's currently set at 40 if it's needed,any temp higher than this goes direct to the taps.
My boiler failed twice with hot water inlet temps less than that of whic you would safely allow a child to wash in.
ATAG are well aware of the issue(twice now).