Meter change. Why is access to house needed?

[sparkwright]

Even if they could do it without entering the property, I suppose there would always be occasion where they may have to.

Why don't you want them to enter the house?

 

[HERTS P&D]

Is your house 'that' dirty???

Andy

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Why don't you want them to enter the house?

Triffids in the loft/conservatory/kitchen!!

 

[JohnW2]

There obviously still could be a persisting (pre-existing) polarity reversal within the house (e.g. at CU, or at individual sockets etc.), but is that 'of concern' to those just carrying out a meter change?

YES Whatever the condition is prior to the work it must be correct when finished. Staff have been dismissed for incorrect polarity, it is potentially that serious. See my earlier post there has been at least one death to a child as a result. The CU idea is a red herring, polarity must be proven before re-energisation, no ifs, no buts, no excuses

Thanks. That's interesting. I obviously can't disagree with it in terms of safety, but it does beg the question as to how far someone changing a meter (or, indeed, a DNO doing more extensive work upstream of the meter) is expected/required to go in verifying the safety of the customer's installation downstream of a correctly-provided supply and meter.

Where do you verify the polarrity - at the CU? If there are multiple CUs and/or sub-mains, do you confirm correct polarity at each of them? What about final circuits - to what extent do youi check the polarity of those? ... and what other potentially dangerous aspects of the installation do you check for after doing work on, or upstream of, the meter - main bonding, use of earth, EFLI, or what?

I'm not being critical or 'getting at' anyone. I'm just interested to know whether consumer-side polarity reversal is 'singled out' as something which has to be checked in the situation and, if so, why? I understand your point that there has been at least one death due to incorrect polarity (was that due to an error within the consumer's installation?) but there are clearly also other things which could potentially result in death.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

The test is done with a plug in tester at a 13A plug. If it is found to be incorrect further investigations would take place to find the source of the problem.
If it is on the customer's installation (but don't forget a check would be made before) the supply would be left disconnected until the fault rectified.
If on the metering or the supply, obviously it would be corrected.

The death was as a result of an electrical contractor breaking a meter seal to change a CU and re-connecting it incorrectly (pre 17th edition). One I know about as it occurred within my DNO's patch.

 

[JohnW2]

The test is done with a plug in tester at a 13A plug. If it is found to be incorrect further investigations would take place to find the source of the problem. If it is on the customer's installation (but don't forget a check would be made before) the supply would be left disconnected until the fault rectified. If on the metering or the supply, obviously it would be corrected.

Thanks. That all makes sense - although, unless you check at all sockets (one on each final circuit, at the very least) that method would obviously be limited in its ability to detect polarity errors in final circuits. I can say with almost complete certainty that such testing was not undertaken at my last two meter changes, since I (undoubtedly annoyoingly!) watched them like a hawk! Do I take it that the polarity checking is meant to be undertaken after meter changes (which is the topic of this thread) as well as after DNO work upstraem of the meter?

The death was as a result of an electrical contractor breaking a meter seal to change a CU and re-connecting it incorrectly (pre 17th edition). One I know about as it occurred within my DNO's patch.

Fair enough - but that's obviously something which could happen any day, to any installation. It obviously is 'better than nothing' for a DNO to check for such things whenever they have an opportunity, but it is so rare for them to be within a customer's premises that they will clearly miss the great majority of such consumer-side errors - at least, until they have been present for a very long time!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

but surely you agree it is reasonable for them to carry out this most basic and simple of checks, when they are already at the premises and have just disconnected and reconnected?

 

[westie101]

The requirement for polarity checks came to the fore after mutterings from the authorities about us complying with ESQCR which contains a clause relating to the subject.

Basically we are not the wiring police so only need to ensure that our work is correct by a quick check.

Though the plug in testers can be fooled on a TNC-S supply which has never really been addressed (though not for a crossed live)

 

[JohnW2]

but surely you agree it is reasonable for them to carry out this most basic and simple of checks, when they are already at the premises and have just disconnected and reconnected?

In the context of this thread, they could confirm that the work they have done (changing an external meter) has not resulted in a change in polarity of the supply going into the house, without entering the house or undertaking any checks/tests therein.

The question, therefore, is the extent to which they should check for persisting dangerous situations in the premises (unrelated to the work they have just undertaken) whilst they happen to be there. The concept of any such 'safety checks' undertaken by anyone in any premises at any time cannot be knocked. However, if they are going to check just one thing 'whilst they are in the premises', I'm not convinced that a polarity check is the most 'profitable' thing to do (in terms of probability of identifying dangers) - do you believe that incorrect installation polarity is one of the most common unrecognised dangers that exists in electrical installations?

I should perhaps repeat that I am not contesting the notion that the 'meter changer' should have access to the premises - as I said, particularly so that they can pull the fuse off-load, hence more safely.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[westie101]

In the context of this thread, they could confirm that the work they have done (changing an external meter) has not resulted in a change in polarity of the supply going into the house, without entering the house or undertaking any checks/tests therein.

Given that all there is to check on are the meter terminals, this is not the case otherwise we would not be requesting entry to check.

The check on the3 customer's installation is more of an add on. All the industry is concerned with is covering it's own ar$e and confirming the polarity is correct when we leave site. In the case of a meter change I think that the operative on finding it incorrect at the start would advise the customer and leave site without doing any work.

 

[JohnW2]

In the context of this thread, they could confirm that the work they have done (changing an external meter) has not resulted in a change in polarity of the supply going into the house, without entering the house or undertaking any checks/tests therein.

Given that all there is to check on are the meter terminals, this is not the case otherwise we would not be requesting entry to check.

Indeed, but my point was that, on the basis of the (accessible) meter terminals (and tails attached thereto), it is possible to confirm that the polarity entering the house after they have done their work is the same as it was before - which presumably goes a fair way down the 'CYA' path!

The check on the3 customer's installation is more of an add on.

Yes, I realise that - hence my earlier comments about what can/should reasonably be done, given the myriad of dangerous things which might be going on within the installation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Im having my meter changed from an Economy 7 meter to a standard meter since we haven't had Economy 7 storage heating for over 20 years since our village went to oil (we have no gas!).

The electrical company are insisting the engineer may need access to the house and I asked why as the meter is on the outside of the house.

They wont say why. I think it must just be standard customer services bull$**t.

Can anybody offer any explanation?

Whatever, it appears not to matter why.

If you want your meter changed someone will have to be there to let them in.

If nobody can be there to let them in then you can't have your meter changed.

Simples.

 

[westie101]

Indeed, but my point was that, on the basis of the (accessible) meter terminals (and tails attached thereto), it is possible to confirm that the polarity entering the house after they have done their work is the same as it was before - which presumably goes a fair way down the 'CYA' path!

no because that requires the meter terminal cover to be removed whilst live which most meter operatives are not authorised to do, connect leads to live equipment that is not designed for that purpose. If it could be done do you not think we would be doing it?
There is another way of checking polarity that we can use, but it needs two persons present to ensure safety.

 

[JohnW2]

no because that requires the meter terminal cover to be removed whilst live which most meter operatives are not authorised to do, connect leads to live equipment that is not designed for that purpose. If it could be done do you not think we would be doing it?

Oh, I see, that explains it, then! Do I therefore take it that these people are only trained/trusted to plug testers into sockets and therefore would not be allowed to test polarity at, say, a CU? What sort of/how much training do these people have - I have in mind that even 'minimally trained' electricians (or apprentices) undertake potentially 'live tests' every time they 'test for dead' - which must happen thousands of times every day.

Anyway, as I've said, my questions are only out of interest. The need, or at least desirability, for these meter operatives (or DNO personnel) to have access to the premises is clear enough to me.

Kind Regards, John

 

[clifford1]

Our meter is inside the house, and was changed about 6 months ago.
Whatever tests he did were entirely confined to the board inside the cupboard on the wall.