Muslim / Gypsy burial conflict - The facts

You can't backpedal a penny-farthing but it would be funny to watch someone try.

But, as far as I can tell, the only back-pedalling might well be from the journalist for publishing an

"inaccurate, divisive and inflammatory article"
 
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What do you expect them to say?
They are idiots. End off..

This is what Tracy Smith says...

“We bought the plots in good faith – no one said we couldn’t have them. We don’t want any of the bodies exhuming but it looks like that is what might happen.

“We feel hurt and humiliated. The whole family is heartbroken.”
 
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I'm afraid that, beyond that, I cannot commend further on this thread, much as I'd like to, as discussions involving muslims are not permitted on this forum. This thread will, therefore, be deleted or locked before long.

Well, I have to admit that I was wrong. The thread has continued unabated for far longer than I imagined. So it must be acceptable to discuss islam after all, and so perhaps I can feel safe in joining in again (although without being offensive to anyone in particular, of course).

The word 'bigot' has been bandied about quite a lot of late, although it appears that there is some disagreement about its meaning! Slightly off-topic, I suppose, but could someone advise me the order of intensity of the following words, which have been used pretty much interchangeably?

Racist
Islamophobe
Bigot

Unimportant, I guess, but from what I can see they became popular in that particular order.

And when all three have lost their effect, could anyone suggest what the next accusatory 'in-word' might be?
 
Let's take a step back and analyse what we know we know. Understand that there are some things that we don't know we know, but we can make a reasonably educated assumption. Accept that there are things we know we don't know, and can make some effort to find out. But there will always be things that we don't know we don't know. :eek: With thanks to Donald Rumsfield, Bless him. ;)

We know there was a dispute. Perhaps the Muslim community, or the relatives of the deceased complained. It's irrelevant.
What is relevant is that the cemetery promoted itself as mulit-denominational. Nothing wrong with that.
For millenia people have been deciding/prefering how when and why their mortal remains should be "disposed or retained". Muslims, Jews and perhaps other religions insist on being buried (and remaining undisturbed) amongst those of similar faith, or at least away from non-believers. Nocon has a similar desire/requirement.
Bhuddists/Chinese/South Asian seem to prefer to buy plots of land so that their family can be buried together, but in strict hierachical order. GrandParents at the top, parents below, siblings equally side by side, etc.
Some religions require cremation, others might desire to be buried at sea. Winston Churchill wanted to rest beside his dogs and his house, etc.
It really doesn't matter.
It might seem intolerant to those of us who don't give a hoot. (I might prefer to be buried in the Chinese tradition because of the regular annual respect paid to the deceased. (Qingming Festival)
But these requirements have been going for millenia, e.g. Stonehenge, burial mounds, viking funerals, etc.
It would be a long and difficult job to try to start denying people their burial rites. It's also perhaps a little disrespectful to accuse those, who have requirements, of intolerance.
Now to the operation of multi-denominational cemeteries. It doesn't mean that we're all bunged in together irrespective of faith. It means that the management are aware of individual requirements and can accomodate them.
For instance:
The cemetery in question did promote itself as multi-denominational.
When one approaches cemeteries, undertakers etc, religious requiements are discussed. If the cemetery or undertaker forgets to mention this, they are IMO, failing the family of the deceased.
Now we don't know what went on when the Muslim man was interred, we don't know what reassurances were given to the family at that time.
IMO, the management of the cemetery should have been aware of the method of operating a multi-denominational cemetery. If they were not, they were incompetent.
If they later overlooked the requirements of multi-denominational burials, they were incompetent.

Now if any of us experienced such incompetence as that we would be fully justified in complaining.
You can call it intolerance if you wish, but IMO that's just another case of exploiting sensitive issues to further your own agenda. That's racism at work.
 
We know there was a dispute. Perhaps the Muslim community, or the relatives of the deceased complained. It's irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? If the ROP had not made a complaint this story would not exist.

And you know that it was the ROP family who made the initial complaint. That makes the rest of your post irrelevant. :rolleyes:
 
We know there was a dispute. Perhaps the Muslim community, or the relatives of the deceased complained. It's irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? If the ROP had not made a complaint this story would not exist.

And you know that it was the ROP family who made the initial complaint. That makes the rest of your post irrelevant. :rolleyes:
If the management of the multi-denominational cemetery had not been incompetent, there would have been no grounds for any complaint.
Do you see the difference?

As the council were incompetent and realised five days pior to the Gypsy funeral, and tried to correct their "cock-up" there were justifiable grounds for a complaint.

You simply refuse to accept that, and keep trying to incite tension by blaming the Muslim family, in order to further your own agenda.
That's racism, and deceitful unabashed attempts to raise racial tensions.
 
The reason this thread exists is not because somebody complained, it us because a mendacious journo saw the opportunity to whip up synthetic rage by suggesting some body was going to be dug up.

And because some Islamophobes, who will believe any anti-Muslim story, took the opportunity to get excited.
 
We know there was a dispute. Perhaps the Muslim community, or the relatives of the deceased complained. It's irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? If the ROP had not made a complaint this story would not exist.

And you know that it was the ROP family who made the initial complaint. That makes the rest of your post irrelevant. :rolleyes:
If the management of the multi-denominational cemetery had not been incompetent, there would have been no grounds for any complaint.
Do you see the difference?

As the council were incompetent and realised five days pior to the Gypsy funeral, and tried to correct their "cock-up" there were justifiable grounds for a complaint.

You simply refuse to accept that, and keep trying to incite tension by blaming the Muslim family, in order to further your own agenda.
That's racism, and deceitful unabashed attempts to raise racial tensions.

Why did you suggest it was not known who made the complaint? I suspect that was deliberate on your part.

As I don't give a toss about religion other than the one that has proved that it's the least tolerant religion in the world but keeps telling us it is the most tolerant.

You your perpetual and boring defence of the indefensible makes you the intolerant one. See the similarity?
 
We know there was a dispute. Perhaps the Muslim community, or the relatives of the deceased complained. It's irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? If the ROP had not made a complaint this story would not exist.

And you know that it was the ROP family who made the initial complaint. That makes the rest of your post irrelevant. :rolleyes:
If the management of the multi-denominational cemetery had not been incompetent, there would have been no grounds for any complaint.
Do you see the difference?

As the council were incompetent and realised five days pior to the Gypsy funeral, and tried to correct their "cock-up" there were justifiable grounds for a complaint.

You simply refuse to accept that, and keep trying to incite tension by blaming the Muslim family, in order to further your own agenda.
That's racism, and deceitful unabashed attempts to raise racial tensions.

Why did you suggest it was not known who made the complaint? I suspect that was deliberate on your part.

As I don't give a toss about religion other than the one that has proved that it's the least tolerant religion in the world but keeps telling us it is the most tolerant.

You your perpetual and boring defence of the indefensible makes you the intolerant one. See the similarity?
Typical resort to racially offensive rants in the face of reason.
Nothing changes.
The only religion you have any opinion is Islam, and it's a very negative opinion. You exploit every opportunity to deride it.

Foot, mouth come to mind?
I knew if we engaged with you for long enough, it was bound to happen.
 
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