My Night Storage Heaters are only using Peak Rate

[crystal ball]

Thats normally (but not always) the way it works, with a dual rate meter that gets switched over at the same time a contactor pulls in the heating load, however there was a another way of doing it which involved two meters and only the load connected through the cheap (often white meter) would receive the cheaper rate.

I think it was probably somewhat regional and even in regions that adopted it, I think thye have been phasing it out (as sunray alludes to) for a good number of years now.

I cannot recall if I've ever seen the two meter set up in my time up here in the east midlands, but it is probably more common in other areas

My MIL still has the two meter set up ( with afternoon boost) the clock has drifted by a few hours, they used to be re set every few years in local board days, not seen one anywhere else for years

 

[SUNRAY]

I have only been aware of one installation with twin meters this century and possibly the decade before that. However that is a complex with 29 (28 appartments plus communal areas) and the cheap rate was switched with large 3ph contactors

E7 heaters

I've been out tonight to a rental flat where the tenant keeps complaining that the E7 storage heaters don't come on and they have to keep adjusting the time switches. It seems some work has been done in the 'meter cupboard' a couple of weeks ago where all 56 [peak & off peak x 28] meters live...

www.diynot.com

 

[TheCountingHouse]

How did you determine this?

Is it that because the heaters are now connected to the single CU, you just assume the rate at night for the heaters is now 44p. instead of everything including the sockets being 14p. overnight?

I tried to be all scientific! sort of.... I had taken readings for 09 and 10 Oct 2022 already that showed Day Rate being used at night. I go out at midnight and again at 7am and take a video recording of the "smart" meter readings showing both rates, I store the videos on my laptop and complete my own table (old skool) (pix below). To test which appliance is using the electricity (could it be my internet left on all night, or my security camera, or my fridge?) I turned off both switched sockets for the storage heater at 11 pm on 18 Oct 2022, and took readings for 19 Oct 2022 that showed that zero Day Rate was used across Midnight - 7 am 19 Oct 2022. That heater is now not warm. When the night storage heater has both switched sockets switched to live or on, Day Rate electricity of 6 or 7 kW is being used between midnight and 7am. I am writing to E-ON Next with a photo of the meter to ask them how this meter should work. Should my meter just treat all electricity used between 00:30 and 07:30 as Night Rate (if so....I may start doing my laundry at 6am)? I will post some pix of the meter and wires and CU and heater sockets later today.

 

[TheCountingHouse]

Following on from winstons recent comment, is it possible you could send a picture of your installation.
Ideally of the company fuse and meter and any other device around them or the unlikely twin meters (white meter)
Do you have something like this?View attachment 282949

I have this:

 

[TheCountingHouse]

Picture of the consumer unit would be helpful, for all we know he has used a dual tariff board, and there is something wrong with the meter.

Time will tell...

 

[TheCountingHouse]

Yellow wall pic shows the two old CUs side by side (one was large, the other was just two switches). Both storage heaters have two switched sockets. The heaters have been put onto the circuit for sockets in the new CU. I take reading at midnight and again at 7am that show I am using 6 or 7 kW between those hours. I took reading this morning with the heaters turned off at the sockets and I used no Day Rate electricity. E-On Next are sending an engineer to look at the meter 09 Nov 2022. I already told the electrician who did the work about this issue, he re-visited, checked his own work, took photos and said it's all OK and it must be my meter.

 

[TheCountingHouse]

Surely with E7, the whole house is on cheap rate at certain hours? That way, apart from your storage heaters, you can set other things like dish washer/washing machine/ tumble drier etc to use the cheap rate.

I am gonna e-mail E-On next and ask them exactly this.

 

[TheCountingHouse]

How did you determine this?

Is it that because the heaters are now connected to the single CU, you just assume the rate at night for the heaters is now 44p. instead of everything including the sockets being 14p. overnight?

I also looked at my electricity use last year and compared it to this year.
For 2021 between 9th and 13th October I used 13 kW Night and 49 kW Day.
For 2022 between 8th and 13th October I used 2 kW Night and 63 kW Night.

 

[TheCountingHouse]

I hope they are not fuse boxes in this day and age but are CUs.
The idiot you employed (not an electrician) has put your storage heaters on the normal rate having got rid of the off peak CU.
You certainly need an electrician to refit an off peak CU.

Out of interest what was your reason for the work. It is certainly not a requirement to change an existing plastic CU for a metal one.

On a lighter note, and in response to your "Campaign and Brave Struggle to Abolish "FuseBox" and Strike it from The Dictionary In Perpetuity"....please see pic below showing the name of my new CU.


He's called FuseBox.

 

[flameport]

said it's all OK and it must be my meter.

Partially correct but they are also partly to blame for the mess.

The meter is a 5 wire type, the 5th wire would be the switched output for the night storage heaters. Nothing is connected to the 5th wire output (black plug on the underside of the meter between the wires marked 3 and 4).

For it to be used correctly, an additional wire is required from there to the other switchfuse in the cabinet to the left - the top one is connected and is the 'day' circuits in your new consumer unit, the lower one would have been connected via that 5th meter wire to the other old fusebox for the night storage only.
You also need another consumer unit, or the existing one modified, so that the switched 'night' input is connected to the storage heaters.

Therefore the meter installer should have connected that 5th wire
and the electrician should not have shoved the storage heaters all onto a single circuit in the same consumer unit


Not related to your problems - but the whole arrangement of those meters and the old switchfuses is in desperate need of a major overhaul and has been for several decades.

 

[winston1]

On a lighter note, and in response to your "Campaign and Brave Struggle to Abolish "FuseBox" and Strike it from The Dictionary In Perpetuity"....please see pic below showing the name of my new CU.


He's called FuseBox.

That is the name of a manufacturer (a ridiculously stupid one at that) not a description of the device

 

[SUNRAY]

That is the name of a manufacturer (a ridiculously stupid one at that) not a description of the device

No more stupid than: Walkers crisps... which obviously can't walk or runner beans... which obviously can't run or consumer unit... which obviously can't consume or spring onions which arn't sprung or Mars bar which doesn't come from Mars or one persons ridiculously stupid crusade that will never ever get anywhere and he is too stupid to understand that simple fact.

 

[SUNRAY]

Partially correct but they are also partly to blame for the mess.

The meter is a 5 wire type, the 5th wire would be the switched output for the night storage heaters. Nothing is connected to the 5th wire output (black plug on the underside of the meter between the wires marked 3 and 4).

For it to be used correctly, an additional wire is required from there to the other switchfuse in the cabinet to the left - the top one is connected and is the 'day' circuits in your new consumer unit, the lower one would have been connected via that 5th meter wire to the other old fusebox for the night storage only.
You also need another consumer unit, or the existing one modified, so that the switched 'night' input is connected to the storage heaters.

Therefore the meter installer should have connected that 5th wire
and the electrician should not have shoved the storage heaters all onto a single circuit in the same consumer unit


Not related to your problems - but the whole arrangement of those meters and the old switchfuses is in desperate need of a major overhaul and has been for several decades.

This is a new one on me, so far I've only encountered the SM changing the rate and have set the NSH's up to only heat during the off peak times, as per my initial response to this in #5.
I see the arrangement for Flat 3 although it appears they have no feed from the switched fuse to the flat. If I see it correctly all of the wiring is still present for flat 4 in the Henley block to the right of the meter just requires a neutral link.

However I see there are no RCBO's for the NSHs and reading early posts again they have been wired into the ring.
If there are no other fuses/RCBO/MCB in place that is the WRONG thing to do as there are now unprotected flexes on the heaters.
I'm beginning to thing it wasn't an electrician that did that work.