new boiler on old pipes = leaks, should he have warned me?

[jenniferc1980]

Dear Heating Community,

I recently had a system survey and the plumber installed a new boiler at £3000. The new boiler never worked properly and caused a massive leak in my living room and kitchen.

The pipe system in my home is 30-years-old but the engineer didn't warn
me that a new boiler could be too powerful for an old pipe system and he didn't suggest replacing the pipes.

He denies all responsibility, he couldn't find or fix the leaks, and I had to get another firm out to find and fix the leaks.

To get some justice, I need to get in writing from a plumber that a system survey should have identified a possible problem with a new boiler going on 30-year-old pipework, and that a competent engineer should have warned me or advised on getting new pipes too.

Could anyone help with this request?

Thank you so much.

Jennifer

 

[muggles]

The new installation hasn't "caused" leaks as such, it's just exposed weaknesses in your system that were already there. What would you have wanted him to do for your system survey, take up every floorboard in your house to inspect every joint and pipe?

It's very rare that a re-pipe is required with a new boiler. I've not had a major leak on an old system as a result of installing a new boiler at any time in the last ten years. Your installer should have warned you of the possibility of weaknesses being exposed but ultimately it's just unfortunate - it's certainly not his fault in any way.

 

[hertsboilers]

Agree with Andrew. It is just a bad luck.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Customers like this are the very reason we have terms and conditions.

The installer is guilty of nothing more than a little naivety.

Perhaps he should have warned you, but that doesn't mean he's liable for the crapness of your old system. I priced to change the boiler for some friends yesterday. The other chap didn't mention the state of the pipework. I did, but they are choosing to ignore warning and risk it. Partly down to budget.




Why does someone HAVE to be to blame?


What "justice" are you seeking?

 

[FiremanT]

Customers like this are the very reason we have terms and conditions.

The installer is guilty of nothing more than a little naivety.

Perhaps he should have warned you, but that doesn't mean he's liable for the crapness of your old system.

I am not sure it is safe to say that he is responsible for damage, but any proffesional worth his salt would point out the very real potential problem of converting a tank fed system to pressurised,or. indeed, of carrying out a poweflush on an old system. This may be the guy's first issue, and may not have been aware of possibility, but one would hope that he will warn in future.

I have a had a grand totalof THREE such problems. One, 20 years ago when a rad started squirting as I was drinkuing a cup of tea just before leaving. Quick visit to merchants for new rad, and presented a kind bill, which was paid no problem.

2 years ago - 2 rads popped after starting new system

7/8 months ago, I was tidyinhg up to leave when I noticed water suirting up through kitchen screed! Dug floor and found splits in HW pipe. Obviously could not withstand increase pressure. Had to dig floor and replace 15M of tube.

So it does happen, but relatively rarely.

 

[longdogs]

The usual problems are old tap valves and washing machine valves/hoses which can't take the increase in pressure after years of low pressure.

 

[jenniferc1980]

thank you for the replies. I'm not blaming the engineer for what has happened but surely a competent engineer has a duty to warn people of potential problems with fitting a new powerful boiler to old pipework. If he had said there was a danger of leaks, I could have made an informed decision and would have either not had the old boiler replaced or had new pipes fitted as well.

 

[jenniferc1980]

the problem it created were leaks under the floor in the living room and kitchen. I'm not blaming him but surely he has a duty to warn customers when fitting new boilers to a 30 year old pipe system?

 

[slapper]

As said before, it was the installers naivity for not pre warning you of the possible outcome. However its not a statuary obligation

 

[Dan Robinson]

Duty of care has nothing to do with it. Neither does the 'power' of the boiler.


What justice are you on about?


If you are not blaming him for anything what are you seeking to do?

 

[75pete]

From an open vented system to a Pressure system ... Say it all

 

[Dean744PiN5]

How much did it cost to have the leaks repaired? Bet it was cheaper than a complete repipe. And now those teething problems are sorted it would be very unfortunate if you had more.

This is just another case of the need for solid terms and conditions that are signed before work starts, to protect both the customer and installer.

 

[Agile]

If pressurising an old system then I always warn customers about the possibility of leaks and discuss if changing the rad valves woudl be adviseable.

Often TRVs are sensible to be fitted, then perhaps the lockshields.

So I agree he may have have been naieve but not blameable.

Tony

 

[jenniferc1980]

Your installer should have warned you of the possibility of weaknesses being exposed but ultimately it's just unfortunate - it's certainly not his fault in any way.

thank you -- that is what I was looking for from the installer -- a warning so that I could make an informed decision. I believe that the professional has a moral and professional duty to warn customers of such issues.

Re: your other point... Obviously I wouldn't expect him to lift up floor boards and check every joint and pipe but he said he did a "system inspection" and didn't point out the risk of the old pipework not being able to handle a new boiler. He didn't need to inspect every pipe and join to tell met this.

You may not have had old pipework fail on a new boiler but it does happen (see other posts on this thread).

Saying that it's the customer's fault doesn't help the reputation of the engineer or the industry. My issue here is with the lack of a risk warning given following what was supposed to be a system inspection.

A simple warning from the engineer would have enabled me to get quotes for a complete system and avoid major under floor leaks in the living room and kitchen. I wouldn't have took the risk of just a boiler had the "professional" advised me there was leak risk.

 

[Snigie]

its highly likely that if the installer would of told you about the risk you would of just told him to get on with it anyway, depending on the amount of pipework involved it could be an extra £1500 for example on top of the job in hand, when i was self employed i did advise my customers of the potential risk of leaks but all apart from one customer (a lot of lead pipework on the system) didn't bother to replace and never had much trouble apart from the odd rad valve/tap connector needed tightening, in my honest opinion the installer isnt to blame, but should of warned you.
i really don't think there is any need for 'justice' unless you are fishing to claim against him, which i don't think would be fair.