new boiler on old pipes = leaks, should he have warned me?

[Dan Robinson]

But he still has DONE nothing wrong.

You have not been put in any danger, the problems that have arisen would have happened to everyone.

Why didn't you get other estimates in and aggregate the advice?


You haven't told us what "justice" you are seeking and it appears you are just out to rinse the installer of some money you would have to have spent anyway.

You have the benefit of hindsight now. Saying you would have sought further prices for more work after the fact means nothing.

 

[Agile]

If pressurising an old system then I always warn customers about the possibility of leaks and discuss if changing the rad valves woudl be adviseable.

Often TRVs are sensible to be fitted, then perhaps the lockshields.

So I agree he may have have been naieve but not blameable.

Tony

 

[ScottishGasMan]

I've seen newly fitted systems leak more often than systems where only the boiler was replaced, so in all fairness the chance of your pipework leaking was not any higher than the chance of new pipework leaking due to imperfections in the joints (which cant be 100% tested until its filled and has been heated and cooled many times)

The fact the leaks were under the floor leds me to assume there was no actual damage from the water leaks, so your justice would be to force the installer to pay for the other contractors repairs?

 

[vulcancontinental]

Just the tone of his voice would make a difference to your reaction and judgement if he had warned you.

If he said lightly " there is a chance of a leak on this old I'm afraid" you could have reacted one way.

If he'd have siad after a sharp intake of breath "there is a chance of a leak on this old pipework I'm afraid" and tutted or shook his head you might have thought he was bigging up the job for more money and he'd lose it.

If he'd have been a doommonger and persuaded you to repipe costing more than the repairs you've now had done you may well have been on here now asking was it right for him to recommend a repipe at £X,000 when your neighbour had the same thing done without a repipe and had no problems.

Personally I'd have come back to help but then I might not have depending on the attitude of the customer. You may be the epitome of politeness on here now concealing a simmering discontent but quite difficult with him when under pressure with water underfoot and he'd be less inclined to assist.

Poo happens.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You've said that already Tony.

Makes no difference the liability of an installer that has pressurised an old system and suffered consequential leaks.

The customer is also responsible for asking questions and getting more than one estimate - one could argue.

 

[Agile]

A simple warning from the engineer would have enabled me to get quotes for a complete system and avoid major under floor leaks in the living room and kitchen. I wouldn't have took the risk of just a boiler had the "professional" advised me there was leak risk.

You seem to be missing the point that you are no worse off by him not telling you. Whether he told you or not you still have to pay to have any leaks fixed. So it really makes no difference practically.

The reality is that few PROPERLY made copper soldered joints will ever leak when pressurised. They are actually stronger than the copper tube!

What do leak are badly made joints but most are made adequately and very rarely leak as any installer will tell you.

Replacing all the copper pipe, particularly under floors, is never necessary as copper has a life of 100s of years if there is no corrosion.

So I don't see any thing that he has done wrong although in an ideal world he should have mentioned the possibility of leaks occuring.

Tony

 

[kidgreen61]

I wonder who Jennifer would blame if she had been warned about possible leaks, then went ahead anyway.

Sounds like a difficult customer to me, no wonder original installer didn't want to go back.

 

[Agile]

Personally I'd have come back to help but then I might not have depending on the attitude of the customer. You may be the epitome of politeness on here now concealing a simmering discontent but quite difficult with him when under pressure with water underfoot and he'd be less inclined to assist.

I do have to say that I read the words and tone of her original post to be that she somehow expected him to pay her something as "justice".

But we have amply demonstrated that none of us think that he has done anything very wrong and certainly has no need to make any payments. he did nothing to cause the leaks and they were caused by poorly made joints in your existing system.

Tony

 

[Agile]

You said the boiler never worked properly.

What was that problem?

How was it resolved?

Tony

 

[DaveHerns]

Everything is someone else's fault these days ! You should know that

 

[Whitespirit66]

Simple teething problems, then wants to hang the guy out to dry.

Women don't understand these things. Much better if her boyfriend/husband/father deals with this.

 

[gas112]

I am with the customer on this as pro`s we all know the possible consequences of adding a pressurized system onto old .

It would take 2 minutes to explain in layman terms what may happen .

Would yous all fit a pressurised system to servowarm rads without pre warning the customer no i hope you wouldnt.

Once customer has been informed then its then there choice wether to go ahead with job or best case scenario give you even more work and ask you to repipe the whole lot.
I dont see this customer is hanging the guy out to dry they are just asking if they should have been told .
Much the same as you would explain the differences how the new system would work differently from the existing system.
So yes they should have been told

Some of you really need to learn how to communicate with your customers instead of thinking its ok if its in your small print

 

[bernardgreen]

my opinion is that the plumber should have known the risks involved in using old vented pipe work in a new unvented pressurised system and at the very least informed the customer of those risks BEFORE committing to a boiler that required a pressurised system.

A pressure test of the pipe work would have identified if there were leaks at the new pressure the pipe work would have to withstand.

The new boiler doesn't work properly as the pressure in the radiator system will be falling below the minimum required by the boiler.

The other question is why change to a sealed system if there are tanks and pipework in place for a vented system.

 

[DP]

Gas makes a valid point

Equally, a system or a combi would have needed constant pressurising for substantial damage to occur. Initial pressure to 1.25 bar would be at 0 if weeps were at different places, so wetness certainly, flood, do not see how

It is not uncommon for people to slag others in effort to show their 'professionalism'

 

[Dan Robinson]

Some of you really need to learn how to communicate with your customers instead of thinking its ok if its in your small print

Nothing wrong with my communication skills, but customers often have selective memories.


Mind you, you're famous for having a perfect with record with prefect customers when you make it out of the pub to get that overtime.