New Boiler & Vented Heat Bank Location

[megawatt]

ChrisR: Whilst all the character assassination has been entertaining my original enquiry was regarding the Pandora heat bank ... Presumably, your last comment

chooses systems people will have no end of trouble with

wasn't referring to this?

I have heard nothing but praise for the DPS systems, the Pandora in particular, and the fact that it can be fitted and maintained by competent DIY'ers is testement to innovative design and should be praised not criticised IMO. I cannot see any benefits from installing an unvented system over the Pandora with sealed CH circuit (in fact quite the opposite) and I'd appreciate comments from any pro's who have actually installed these systems.

 

[Water Systems]

ChrisR: Whilst all the character assassination has been entertaining my original enquiry was regarding the Pandora heat bank ... Presumably, your last comment

chooses systems people will have no end of trouble with

wasn't referring to this?

I have heard nothing but praise for the DPS systems, the Pandora in particular, and the fact that it can be fitted and maintained by competent DIY'ers is testement to innovative design and should be praised not criticised IMO. I cannot see any benefits from installing an unvented system over the Pandora with sealed CH circuit (in fact quite the opposite) and I'd appreciate comments from any pro's who have actually installed these systems.

I have had these fitted. Great, easy and a great foolproof design. Pees all over unvented cylinders. No overflow and fill up with a hose, screw up and leave.

The recovery rate is fast with appropriate boiler and delivers the pressure and flowrate.

Can have two stats to prevent boiler cycling (recommended)

 

[Bigburn]

Kevplum wrote

ask all you like bonny lad i can think of 2 had lunch with one in brum and have spoken to the other on skype

and they both agree that WS talks pap
__________________

That dont make a lot of sense to me.
He,s a poster on this forum RIGHT ??
Who has an alias RIGHT??.

 

[kevplumb]

yes they both are RIGHT

yes they post under a username RIGHT

so flaming what

they have both forgot more than the bleeding salesman will ever know about installing RIGHT

 

[corgiman]

yes they both are RIGHT

yes they post under a username RIGHT

so flaming what

they have both forgot more than the bleeding salesman will ever know about installing RIGHT

and thats fighting talk from where me and me old pappy come from

(good job we moved eh pop )

 

[Water Systems]

yes they both are RIGHT

yes they post under a username RIGHT

so flaming what

they have both forgot more than the bleeding salesman will ever know about installing RIGHT

What salesman?

 

[kevplumb]

What salesman?

the purveyor of the sludge bucket IE yourself

 

[Bigburn]

Kevplum wrote

oh no i ain't salesman
and i trust johns opinion over yours anyday

Haaa haa, its Doitall RIGHT ?
Their opinion is the same.
Well it was a few days ago on a posting where I said pipe in a new cold supply for a pump and Doitall and WS both agreed on an equalizing valve.

 

[kevplumb]

and that has got what???? to do with this topic ????

 

[Bigburn]

Mega watt wrote

Can someone please explain to me the difference between a pressurised thermal store and an unvented cylinder and why certification is required for one and not the other?

Water Systems wrote

Pressurised Heat banks (Plate Heat Xs) don't require an unvented ticket, they are DIYable. A pressurised thermal store using a coil needs one

Can you explain this more clearly WS for the OP to understand if possible. ?
Their are so many configurations on thermal stores and many people just do not understand them.

If the pressurised heat bank (PHx) doesnt require a specialized installer trained in unvented systems to install them then why does the pressurised thermal store using a coil need a specialized installer ???..
The coil could be for heating the store or it could be producing the hot water like as the case with an albion for example.

 

[Bigburn]

Kevplumb wrote

and that has got what???? to do with this topic ????
__________________

Sweet FA.
I guess its just coincidental that I came upon this.
Nice bit of sherlock work dont you think though

 

[Bigburn]

Kevplum wrote

the purveyor of the sludge bucket IE yourself

This is in reference to thermal stores RIGHT. ?
Im not an expert on thermal stores but the Pandorra which is the system that the OP has expressed interest in will have trouble sludging up as no water ever passes through it.
I would imagine no inhibitor need be added either .

Whats your gripe against these systems ??.

 

[kevplumb]

Whats your gripe against these systems ??.

nothing if they are installed correctly which most ain't

they are not a universal option as a combi is not

seen enough of them (both) dead before their time due to poor installation

 

[ChrisR]

ChrisR wrote:
Seems to like finding loopholes to get round the law,
advises against using common-sense safety,
chooses systems people will have no end of trouble with,
like to see things go unserviced.....


You made all that up.

Nope, all derived from what you've written. Perhaps you should be more careful?

Megawatt:
If you want to learn about an unusual appliance or system, install and maintain it, fine. Find out from installers and maintainers of them what the weak points are. Worry about any non-standard parts, worry about small companies. If one day you aren't around, or you're selling the property, you might have a problem. Be aware that about 99% of plumbers will take one look and suck in through their teeth and say "You want a Megaflo". Everything needs understanding and maintenance. Many heat-store systems need a lot more understanding than unvented cylinders, which although they need the "ticket", are pretty simple.

We get to see all sorts of systems, never with full documentation, often obsolete, where lack of understanding, poor design, poor installation or some combination leads to problems, and frustrated people who throw their hands up in despair. Often it doesn't take a lot to sort them out, but rather too often the people consulted aren't up to it!

If you want Alfa Romeo performance then don't buy a Ford, but ask yourself what really matters to you.

 

[Water Systems]

Can you explain this more clearly WS for the OP to understand if possible. ?
Their are so many configurations on thermal stores and many people just do not understand them.

If the pressurised heat bank (PHx) doesnt require a specialized installer trained in unvented systems to install them then why does the pressurised thermal store using a coil need a specialized installer ???..
The coil could be for heating the store or it could be producing the hot water like as the case with an albion for example.

Building Regulations;
The following terms apply to terms in Section 3 and 4 of G3;

"Unvented hot water storage system means an unvented vessel for either ;

a) storing domestic hot water for subsequent use or

b) heating domestic hot water that passes through an integral pipe or coil.

and fitted with safety devices to prevent water temperatures exceeding.......," etc..

G3 SECTION 3 SYSTEMS UP TO 500 LITRES AND 45 kW

Where unvented hot water storage systems "means an unvented vessel for either :

a. storing domestic hot water for subsequent use; or

b. heating domestic water that passes through an integral pipe or coil (eg water jacketed tube heater/combi boiler)

I'd take this to mean a thermal store with an internal tube heat exchanger would fall under the unvented hot water storage system regulations, G3, but one with an external plate heat exchanger would not. NU-Heat supply with plate heat exchnagers and say G3 not required. RCM supply a pressurised coiled thermal store, and also say no G3. I wrote top RCM as to why they think so some time ago.

A Worcester-Bosch combi has an integral thermal store. No G3 needed. A Pottertom Powermax has an integral unvenetd cylinder and requires G3.

Have a look here -
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002531.htm

It states this -

Requirement G3 does not apply to -

(a) a hot water storage system that has a storage vessel with a capacity of 15 litres or less;

(b) a system providing space heating only;

(c) a system which heats or stores water for the purposes only of an industrial process.