It could be...... but if it was then people could list the advantages of a non vented system.... If the non vented system is better than than a vented system then it must possible to give the reasons non vented is ( so often ) the better choice.
New C/H system - recommendations
- Thread starter Sunshine12
- Start date
It could be...... but if it was then people could list the advantages of a non vented system.... If the non vented system is better than than a vented system then it must possible to give the reasons non vented is ( so often ) the better choice.
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The op has a shower in his loft room, where do you propose to put the cold water tank/cisternon the roof ?
A bit of alternative thinking and pulling his aunty out of the toolbox and I'm sure he can come up with an insulated anti gravity device that can levitate a cistern 3 metres above the house.
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Shower in the loft ? then mains pressure ( or reduced mains pressure ) via a second coil in the top of the vented cylinder.
M
MJGas
Accumulator high tech. you having a ****ing lauge. whats high tech about a ****ing tin can and water balloon?
As opposed to a dirty great cold water cistern eh Berny?
I was being sarcastic when I described them as high tech, but they are more "complicated" than a simple tank ( cistern ), the balloon can wear out, and fitted in cupboards they are limited in size and capacity. And as they empty the pressure drops.
Why a dirty tank, and, restrained primarily by the load bearing capacity of the joists it can be as big as is necessary. It could supply enough water for several showers before getting close to empty when there is only a trickle of water flowing in from the mains. Then over the next few hours that trickle from the mains re-fills the cistern. Yes calling is a trickle is taking to the extreme of poor mains supply but it makes the point clear that a cistern in the loft can buffer a lot of water, far more than a tin can in a cupboard.
Pressure control is by the height of the tank above the cylinder, no need for a pressure reducing valve on the incoming mains that is necessary to keep the pressure with the safe operating range of the non vented cylinder. No need for an over pressure relief valve necessary in case the pressure reducing valve fails to keep the pressure in the cylinders safe range.
And not forgetting the other reason for not having a tank in the loft
https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...ote__cold_water_service_storage_cisterns.pdf/madrab said:
Oh dear.
M
MJGas
Didnt you ever get told. Don't tell your grandma how to suck eggs.
Yes but I was also told to look at both sides of the argument. And to be impartial when giving advice.
Now to you and many other plumbers and heating engineers on this forum I probably seem far from being impartial and may appear instead to be strongly in favour of vented systems. That is because almost all questions on this forum about what system to use are answered by tradesmen advocating a non vented system. The person asking the question is not given both sides of the argument as would happen if the tradesmen were being impartial.
Its called progress Bernard, would you ask a garage to fit points and a distributor cap when you know fuel injection is available ? vented cylinders are a poor choice when unvented cylinders are available, I can understand repairing vented systems to keep them going but would never spec one on a refurb or new build.
Is all progress really an improvement ? Just because something is new doesn't automatically mean it is better.
Many "new" products are the old product modified to make it cheaper to produce and often less value for money. It is not uncommon processed foods that the "new" recipe is inferior to the previous one but being new the consumer will assume it is better. ( "new and improved" doesn't say what is improved, profit can be the improvement ).
How much progress is due to contraints imposed by "progress" in other things. ?
The progress in house building has resulted in smaller houses ( compact as the developers describe them ) with little if any space for services. Starter homes with the boiler in a cupboard in a bedroom.
With no space for a hot water cylinder the hot water has to be from a combi boiler.
With no space and/or structural strength in the loft for a even a small tank of water the pressure for the radiator system has to be created and maintained in a sealed system and means to absorb expansion and "top up" pressure when it drops due to leaks have to be added. Also safety devices to release water if the pressure becomes too high. In a vented system the small tank in the loft creates the pressure which cannot exceed the head of water determined by the height of the tank.
Like wise for space and/or structural reasons cold water storage is no longer possible. And even if there is space and enough support storage in the loft then getting the bulky tank ( cistern ) in place in the roof requires the plumbers, roofers and joist installers to co-ordinate with each other. On a large development that need to coordinate several trades carries the risk of delays to the build schedule so developers avoid designing in a cold water store.
I know most plumbers and heating engineers are aware of these facts that create a preference for installing non vented systems. Many end customers are not aware of these facts and will accept their plumber's advice that new systems ( unvented ) must be better than traditional ( vented ) systems.
That said a lot of house owners have no choice. no space in their loft, therefor non vented is the only option.
Many "new" products are the old product modified to make it cheaper to produce and often less value for money. It is not uncommon processed foods that the "new" recipe is inferior to the previous one but being new the consumer will assume it is better. ( "new and improved" doesn't say what is improved, profit can be the improvement ).
How much progress is due to contraints imposed by "progress" in other things. ?
The progress in house building has resulted in smaller houses ( compact as the developers describe them ) with little if any space for services. Starter homes with the boiler in a cupboard in a bedroom.
With no space for a hot water cylinder the hot water has to be from a combi boiler.
With no space and/or structural strength in the loft for a even a small tank of water the pressure for the radiator system has to be created and maintained in a sealed system and means to absorb expansion and "top up" pressure when it drops due to leaks have to be added. Also safety devices to release water if the pressure becomes too high. In a vented system the small tank in the loft creates the pressure which cannot exceed the head of water determined by the height of the tank.
Like wise for space and/or structural reasons cold water storage is no longer possible. And even if there is space and enough support storage in the loft then getting the bulky tank ( cistern ) in place in the roof requires the plumbers, roofers and joist installers to co-ordinate with each other. On a large development that need to coordinate several trades carries the risk of delays to the build schedule so developers avoid designing in a cold water store.
I know most plumbers and heating engineers are aware of these facts that create a preference for installing non vented systems. Many end customers are not aware of these facts and will accept their plumber's advice that new systems ( unvented ) must be better than traditional ( vented ) systems.
That said a lot of house owners have no choice. no space in their loft, therefor non vented is the only option.
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