New C/H system - recommendations

[slippyr4]

Overt and justified self confidence is often mistaken for arrogance.

Yours isn't justified though; all you add to the discussion is noise. You don't help people on here, you hinder them by providing bad or inaccurate information that you don't yourself understand.

However you lack the introspection to realise this and so you turn thread after thread into these pointless arguments.

 

[bernardgreen]

Yours isn't justified though; all you add to the discussion is noise.

It irritates me and a few others who read this forum but do not post that the overwhelming bias on here is for the installation of non vented systems. One of those irritated is a recently retired engineer who investigated customers complaints about the heating system components his company manufactured. He has seen too many systems that were installed with non vented cylinders and / or a non vented radiator system which have failed for various reasons when a fully vented system would not have failed in that situation.

If people asking questions on this forum are told only that non vented systems are the best option and they accept that without any consideration of alternatives then there will be more non optimal systems being installed and more customers will be facing break downs and loss of heating and/or hot water that would not have happened with a vented system.

 

[slippyr4]

There aren't many examples where unvented are recommended inappropriately. If you re-read the start of this thread, there's a dialogue in which the needs of the original poster, as well as the constraints of his setup, are discussed.

It's you that digresses from the useful discussion with ridiculous talk about accumulators on the roof - which you admit you know nothing about - and then points ignition on old cars. It's noise and it's unhelpful.

Now your argument is basically reduced to "a bloke I know once saw an inappropriate unvented install".

 

[bernardgreen]

It's you that digresses from the useful discussion with ridiculous talk about accumulators on the roof

Read the thread again, I did not mention accumulators on the roof, that was some one else.

There aren't many examples where unvented are recommended inappropriately

The validity of that depends on which data base you use.

 

[slippyr4]

There are plenty of threads where unvented cylinders are recommended once it's been established that there is adequate pressure and flow of mains supply. This is because, when appropriate for an installation, they are better. Where is isnt adequate flow or pressure, very often vented cylinders are recommended.

Do you argue the toss about every medical point with your doctor too? After all, you must know better than him. You're a pedantic armchair expert. You don't know what you don't know. You don't add anything useful to this forum.

Doesn't it get you down that in pretty much every thread you post in, your points are ripped apart as wrong and unhelpful? Yet you still soldier on. You're remarkably thick skinned. It's just a shame you lack the insight to not post in the first place.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Funny how Bernard is totally ignorant of logical thought processes when designing a system... Slags off professionals for having similar starting points, yet fails to notice that we have different end results frequently.

Yet he suggests ridiculous ideas like custom made cylinders with mains coils in the top. As if many homeowners could be a7sed. Or indeed happy with the results.... I doubt very much that many of. My customers would be happy with the performance of such a shower.

Alternative thinker?

 

[bernardgreen]

Dead-leg?..you're obviously not familiar with the way in which an accumulator functions..

Obviously not, care to explain how they work. Do they have two ports, one in and one out, or is it a single port for both in and out.

I am still waiting for you to make me familiar with the way an accumulator functions.

 

[bernardgreen]

I doubt very much that many of. My customers would be happy with the performance of such a shower.

My guests are quite happy with the performance.

As if many homeowners could be a7sed.

Unless someone mentions it to them they will be un-aware that such an option is possible.

Funny how Bernard is totally ignorant of logical thought processes when designing a system.

Disappointing that so many "system designers" are tied to standard systems and components and not prepared to step outside that comfort zone.

 

[Dan Robinson]

My guests are quite happy with the performance.

Care to give us the performance figures? And the boiler capacity?


You assume much about many of us professionals and system designers. You know little and are unable to realise this. Its quite pathetic.

 

[bernardgreen]

Care to give us the performance figures? And the boiler capacity?

I haven't taken any detailed measurements. It is a J&S Reno 16 HE Runs for about 30 minutes in the morning and that gives more than 10 minutes mains pressure hot shower and then there is a cylinder of water warm in the bathroom enough for bath and wash basin use during the day. Gentle heat loss from the cylinder and the thatched roof keeps the upper floor ( Bedrooms and bathroom ) comfortably warm. The second cylinder in the kitchen heats at the some time and provides up to two days of hot water for the kitchen and utility needs.

This sort of equates to a 48 kW combi boiler providing "instant" hot water for the shower. ( possibly with the flow in my shower a 48 kW might modulate down ) but without the "bonus" of day long warm water and upper floor background heating .

You assume much about many of us professionals and system designers. You know little and are unable to realise this. Its quite pathetic.

You assume I know little and consider that because I have not designed and installed a standard system that I do not have the knowledge necessary to design a system. I agree I am not trained in designing heating systems but I was educated in the basic principles that can be used to design heating systems.

I am justified in that professionals ( architects, boiler designers, among them ) who have seen or read about the system consider it is optimum for the needs of this cottage.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yet you still harp on about open vented systems and your custom made cylinder fro which, despite not having any performance figures to offer state it performs like a 48kW combi.

Now, seeing as I can't think off the top of my head of a 48kW combi, that seems like a very specific statement.

A 48kW (output) combi will provide you just under 20 litres a minute. Indenfinitely.

What will your 16kW J&S POS input into your cylinder and what is the flow rate of the coil at your mains pressure? Input coil rating of the cylinder? OUtput coil rating of your shower loop? Volume of the cylinder?

 

[bernardgreen]

Yet you still harp on about open vented systems and your custom made cylinder fro which, despite not having any performance figures to offer state it performs like a 48kW combi.

If you say so. What is the point of giving you the information. You would never consider using it in a design so it really is a waste of my time providing it to you and your time reading it.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Find me one other topic where you've suggested anything else other than open vented cylinders.


Or do I seem to remember you suggesting two massive combi's in a house once?

Why assume I wouldn't consider using a coil in cylinder option if needed? I've used all sorts of options over the years, from thermal stores, unvented thermal stores, open vented/unvented cylinders, plate loaded cylinders, bespoke cylinders, accumulators from components I have assembled, OEM Accumulators, Break tank and pump sets, and of course the good old fashioned combi. Plus, Combi's to load cylinders, combis as system boiler, hot water priority set ups using combis and cylinders together.

If the job needs a solution, we as professionals will find one. Don't for one moment think that because you are pompous enough to put "Problem solver, alternate thinker, Agony aunt with a tool box" as a signature that it gives you any more credibility here.



Now, you can refuse to give the performance figures of your lash up; I care little, but thanks anyway for confirming my suspicions.

 

[bernardgreen]

"Problem solver, alternate thinker, Agony aunt with a tool box" as a signature that it gives you any more credibility here.

Perhaps I should have specified which areas of engineering they apply to.

Now, you can refuse to give the performance figures of your lash up; I care little, but thanks anyway for confirming my suspicions.

Is it a lash up. The important performance "figure" are that it serves the purpose it was intended to serve.

 

[Dan Robinson]

he important performance "figure" are that it serves the purpose it was intended to serve.

Not when you're a professional, and not when you make specific claims like it "equates to a 48 kW combi boiler", and it is only instant if there is a cylinder full of hot water already too BTW .