New cooker hood - schuko plug??

[JohnW2]

Another need for 'sanity', perhaps?

This lengthy discussion about details/exceptions/loopholes in the relevant legislation is all very well, but the common sense seems clear enough to me.

Given that BS1363 plugs are pretty unique to (and now almost ubiquitous in) the UK, it seems perfectly reasonable that, for 30+ years, we have had legislation which (although it may have exceptions and loopholes) essentially requires that all "to be plugged in" items/appliances 'supplied' in the UK and intended primarily for domestic use must come with a fitted BS1363 plug.

One can debate the exceptions/loopholes etc but, in simplistic/pragmatic terms, supplying such an item/appliance in the UK with a fitted plug which is something other than a BS1363 one (or usable as such, by virtue of an acceptable type of 'converterplug') is essentially "not allowed". ... and, if one were to go to the trouble of involving Trading Standards (and if they had the time to consider it), I strongly suspect that they would take that view.

In practice, anyone who has better things to do with their time than get involved in arguments would probably cut off the non-UK plug and fit a BS1363 one - "Simples", as they say

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I agree with @JohnW2 where it went astray was the comment below.

The other issue you may have in this situation is them having to sort it usually results in them refunding you and saying go elsewhere instead of actually getting you the correct product

@thomp1983 is correct, one goes into a shop and often there is no one in the shop who is authorised to fit a 13 amp plug, the whole idea of the law was because people were making mistakes, and it does not matter it the person is seller or buyer, unless he can show he knows what he is doing, then there is a problem either getting it wrong or insurance cover should he get it wrong. So as the retailer easiest option is to admit there is an error and do a recall.

As pointed out BS 7671 is not the law, it does say "553.1.2 Except for SELV or a special circuit from Regulation 553.1.5, every plug and socket-outlet shall be of the non-reversible type. with provision for the connection of a protective conductor." so Schuko sockets have not complied with the regulations for a long time, however there is nothing to stop the plug, daft as it may seem in the regulations, just no where to plug it into.

A non scheme member electrician could wire a house with Schuko sockets and get the LABC to issue a completion certificate, but a scheme member signs to say he will follow the BS 7671 rules. Likely he would be permitted if he asked the scheme provider, but he can hardly say it complies and issue a compliance certificate if it does not comply.

I know when I was in Hong Kong I could buy extension leads which would take most plugs, but the earth pins on the CEE 7/5 (French) socket and the Schuko (CEE 7/3) (German) can't have the earth when using the multi-plug sockets.

Although there is a combination plug

clearly no earth with the socket shown even if it does fit and get power. Even countries who had their own sockets, have adopted the British or German sockets, the main problem is the German is 3.68 kW, British 2.99 kW, USA 1.875 kW, Italian 2.3 kW so in real terms 3.5 kW, 3 kW, 2.2 kW and USA is 125 volt so not really a problem. But any appliance over 2.2 kW would need hard wiring in some countries.

When we could buy items without a plug on them, at school children were taught how to change a plug, but it seems that is no longer done, there are a few things which over the years have been dropped for example all English males over the age of 14 are to carry out two hours of longbow practice every week, supervised by the local clergy. This law dates from the middle ages when there was no army and is still in place today. London Hackney carriages (taxis/cabs) must carry a bale of hay and a sack of oats.

I'm OK I am Welsh!

 

[JohnW2]

As pointed out BS 7671 is not the law, it does say "553.1.2 Except for SELV or a special circuit from Regulation 553.1.5, every plug and socket-outlet shall be of the non-reversible type. with provision for the connection of a protective conductor." so Schuko sockets have not complied with the regulations for a long time ...

That's all true in terms of BS7671 but, as you say, that is not 'law' or in any other sense 'mandatory' - so, as I said, "not allowed" is not really correct.

A non scheme member electrician could wire a house with Schuko sockets and get the LABC to issue a completion certificate ...

I'm not so sure about that. In order to issue a completion certificate, the LABC have got to be satisfied that the work complies with Part P and, just like everyone else, they are very likely to look to BS7671 for guidance as to what is regarded, in the UK, as 'safe enough' to be compliant with (the one sentence of!) Part P. Despite what you often say, I don't think they would necessarily be satisfied by compliance with some other country's regulations if it were non-compliant with BS7671

... but a scheme member signs to say he will follow the BS 7671 rules.

Any scheme provider is obviously free to impose whatever conditions of membership that they wish, and any electrician is free to decide whether he/she wishes to join a scheme which imposes particular conditions - but none of that got anything to do with 'law'.

When we could buy items without a plug on them, at school children were taught how to change a plug, but it seems that is no longer done ...

Indeed, but primarily because (primarily due to the legislation) there is generally no longer a need. When you and I were youngsters, virtually no (if any) domestic items/appliances came with fitted plugs, because there was still very much a mixture of BS1363 and earlier sockets around - so, as you say, if the shop would not fit the plug (which many would), one either had to know how to do it oneself, or find someone who could do it. However, once BS1363 sockets became essentially ubiquitous, it became possible to introduce the (I would say very sensible) legislation which essentially required any 'to be plugged in' item intended primarily for domestic use in the UK to be supplied with a plug fitted.

One wouldn't be very happy for cars to be sold without wheels/tyres and to be expected to obtain and fit them oneself

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I remember teaching my children how to fit a plug including how to select the correct size fuse, they were then taught in school and it seems they told teacher he had got it wrong.

It is to be fair hard for the teacher to know it all, I told kids not to contradict the teacher. So next was teacher saying there are two types of transistor can anyone name them. So son said field effect and bi-polar and was told wrong NPN and PNP, so he did not contradict teacher, he just burst out laughing, not sure which was worse.

Teacher should have known better, my son was GW7PVD, so he was unlikely to have got it wrong.

 

[Cable Tee]

Wow. I was not expecting this discussion! Very good information and discussion all round