Yes, but the post that you challenged clearly did state explicitly he was referring to BS7671 16th edition. That's my point.
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- Thread starter Gavin1979
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I have to agree with TTC regarding the situation pre 17th.
My point is that I do recall protecting all socket outlets under the 16th Edition. That is not the same as stating that there was any requirement for that.
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When I started my apprenticeship back in 1998, in domestic work, if we installed a new CU we generally fitted a split load board with RCD protection to all sockets and the shower. If we were adding sockets to an older CU without RCD, it was never a concern unless the socket was specifically for outdoor use. Back then it was rare to use RCDs on any commercial or industrial jobs, as should still be the case now but sadly doesn't seem to be so.
Could you perhaps explain that a little? Are you saying that you don't think 'additional protection' is appropriate in a commercial or industrial setting?
Kind Regards, John
If proper design is used and the person doing the design actually understands what they're designing, then RCD protection will not be needed on the vast majority of circuits.
OK, but I think I then have to more-or-less repeat my second question. Are you saying that you do not think that 'additional protection' is appropriate (necessary) for a 'properly-designed' circuit?
And a couple of supplementary questions ...
...Firstly, if the above is your view, why does it not also apply to domestic installations - are you perhaps suggesting that such installations are not properly designed? I also wonder what aspects of 'proper design' you feel remove the need for RCD protection.
...Secondly, do you not think that 'additional protection' affords an advantage in any installation, in that an RCD will operate as a result of an L-E fault which may be of too high an impedance for ADS, yet low enough to be potentially lethal?
Kind Regards, John
Correct
Yes, but I understand that there often is time / cost implications which make this impractical.
If the installation is designed and installed properly this is getting into the realms of vanishingly improbable faults...
[don't let EFLI catch you writing 'vanishingly improbable'
]You're the one with the experience, so I suppose I have to accept your view that the occurrence of an L-E fault which is not of 'negligible impedance' can be rendered 'vanishingly improbable' by proper installation and design - even though I find that very surprising (dare I say 'hard to believe'?). If I believed that, I think I would, for example, question the need to undertake routine IR testing, since I would believe that the only faults (other than 'vanishingly improbable' ones) would be those that would invoke ADS!
In any event, is not the point that faults (of any sort) are far more likely to arise in attached (e.g. 'plugged in') equipment than in the installation itself - and, no matter how 'proper' the design and installation of the installation ('fixed wiring'), the designer and installer will have little or no control over that equipment?
Kind Regards, John
[don't let EFLI catch you writing 'vanishingly improbable'
You're the one with the experience, so I suppose I have to accept your view that the occurrence of an L-E fault which is not of 'negligible impedance' can be rendered 'vanishingly improbable' by proper installation and design - even though I find that very surprising (dare I say 'hard to believe'?). If I believed that, I think I would, for example, question the need to undertake routine IR testing, since I would believe that the only faults (other than 'vanishingly improbable' ones) would be those that would invoke ADS!
In any event, is not the point that faults (of any sort) are far more likely to arise in attached (e.g. 'plugged in') equipment than in the installation itself - and, no matter how 'proper' the design and installation of the installation ('fixed wiring'), the designer and installer will have little or no control over that equipment?
Kind Regards, John[/QUOTE
I would agree with John, and i agree with RF ! In a commercial installation , e.g. Stage lighting installation it can be a pain in the ars…….. if you have a blown lamp which takes out a rack of dimmers during the show. By the nature of the installation there is a requirement for rcd protection, as its all portable equipment and quite often has to be unplugged and moved very quickly, often in low light or blackouts.
We have all experienced 'incidents' when we have been very thankful for the rcd !
DS
Have we?
I presume you meant that you had grabbed a live wire while leaning on earthed parts and the RCD possibly saved your life.
John has frequently asked if anyone has actually experienced this - I certainly have not.
John has frequently asked if anyone has actually experienced this - I certainly have not.
I never suggested that RCDs cannot sometimes be a pain in the <whatever>, but that is not the argument RF has been using. He has been saying that he does not believe that RCDs are hardly ever necessary for "properly designed and installed" circuits.
Kind Regards, John
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