The newer woecesters have fixed restrictors
New Install & Boiler Advice.......
- Thread starter Humour
- Start date
The newer woecesters have fixed restrictors
Sponsored Links
Quite dissapointed thus far. I've had 4 separate companies come in to quote for the job, but none of them could carry out a dynamic flow test or static pressure test on my mains.
Almost all had one excuse or another why its not critical
to determine what the mains coming into the house equates to.
I'm now lost what I need to do to get to that position. If I paid a plumber to come in coul they do that specifically and give me the numbers??
The Veissman certified installer was a very nice chap but he also deviated from the above as well as another couple of points I raised. He also said that flushing will not be necessary if Im replacing all of the rads (which I am doing). He also said that the 200W is a commercial boiler and that the 100W will be sufficient.
am I just getting brushed off by these people or they just dont go to those lengths of planning when looking to specify and quote a job?
Hum
Hum
Almost all had one excuse or another why its not critical
to determine what the mains coming into the house equates to.I'm now lost what I need to do to get to that position. If I paid a plumber to come in coul they do that specifically and give me the numbers??
The Veissman certified installer was a very nice chap but he also deviated from the above as well as another couple of points I raised. He also said that flushing will not be necessary if Im replacing all of the rads (which I am doing). He also said that the 200W is a commercial boiler and that the 100W will be sufficient.
am I just getting brushed off by these people or they just dont go to those lengths of planning when looking to specify and quote a job?
Hum
Hum
Generally bad advice as the quarterly credit tariff is about 5-6% more expensive.
The dynamic flow rate is very important to appraise the performance of a proposed system.
Its disappointing that so many installers apparently dont bother!
With new rads the system should be cleaned with a cleanser like sentinel X300.
The Viess 200 is a better spec and the most important difference is a much more sophisticated weather comp system. Weather its worth the extra is a matter of opinion. But thats your choice and the installer should have explained the difference and let YOU choose! I hate it when tradesmen tell you what you want.
Glad the Vies fellow is a nice chap though!
Tony
Its disappointing that so many installers apparently dont bother!
With new rads the system should be cleaned with a cleanser like sentinel X300.
The Viess 200 is a better spec and the most important difference is a much more sophisticated weather comp system. Weather its worth the extra is a matter of opinion. But thats your choice and the installer should have explained the difference and let YOU choose! I hate it when tradesmen tell you what you want.
Glad the Vies fellow is a nice chap though!
Tony
Sponsored Links
The installers you have seen may not have the tools to test the pressure and flow, although they are not that expensive. It is critical
A cleanser should suffice if you are changing all of the rads.
I would not award the job to anyone that cant carry out the water tests, if they try to fob you off, just state it's for your own info and that YOU feel it is critical, that way they are obliged.
All of the previous posts explain why this is so, so you have the knowledge to throw back at them ( none of this should be nessacary) I regularly quote against 5 + engineers and often win the quote based on doing these tests alone as no one else could or be bothered.
If you can't do a simple test, should you be working with gas?
A cleanser should suffice if you are changing all of the rads.
I would not award the job to anyone that cant carry out the water tests, if they try to fob you off, just state it's for your own info and that YOU feel it is critical, that way they are obliged.
All of the previous posts explain why this is so, so you have the knowledge to throw back at them ( none of this should be nessacary) I regularly quote against 5 + engineers and often win the quote based on doing these tests alone as no one else could or be bothered.
If you can't do a simple test, should you be working with gas?
I agree with what you guys are saying, but itappeared like most were not happy I knew so much about it. The last chap said Im in the wrong trade lol and that I knew more than some installers
Two people did measure the flow with their little cup but thats all that was done. Nobody measured the static pressure of the mains. I had friends come to help me find the valve/stopcock from the mains (outside of the house), but without success. It is certainly not anywhere around the perimeter of the house and none of the houses that are part of the terraced group have one on the walkway outside the front of houses, so we determined that it must be burried somewhere.
Im not on a meter and the only stopcock I have is in the kitchen coming in on a blue plastic 25mm pipe. The direction from which its coming into the concerete floor suggests that its coming from the rear garden and because the way the garden and neghbouring houses are layed out, if there is a valve somewhere its possible its located in a neighbouring property somewhere or burried in the garden.
The problem I see with measuring dynamic flow rate in my house is that the kitchen tap is shared from the mains with the tap in the garden located at the back of the kitchen and the rest of the taps upstairs are fed through the gravity system. When we measured the flow rate with the kitchen tap on full we get 14ltrs, when the garden tap is also fully open at the same time the kitchen drops to 7ltrs, so that proves these two share the pipe. Im not sure if turning on a tap fed by the gravity system as well will make and diference or not?
I have all of the calcs for radiator outputs done on a spreadsheet by using an online calculator, including room dimensions. My CH total comes in at 6678W, with a 17% oversize of the radiators (couldn get to 20-25% due to the radiators I chose to use) the CH total comes in at 7807W, so my CH requirements are pretty low at just below 8kW. So I now know that I need a boiler which will rate down to 7kW minimum for CH.
One area Im not 100% clear on is whether system controls such as an RF programmer whether on/of or opentherm is required if Im going to use a whether compensate outdoor sensor, or whether only one or the other can be used. Any views on this gents?
I have now shortlisted four companies which are Intergas platinum installers and will chase one or two of those to come in for a quote in the following weeks, as well as try to find other Veissmann accredited installers but that is turning out to be a tough ask Can anyone here reccomend an Intergas or a Veissman installer in the Bedfordshire area whom I can speak to?
Regards
Hum
Two people did measure the flow with their little cup but thats all that was done. Nobody measured the static pressure of the mains. I had friends come to help me find the valve/stopcock from the mains (outside of the house), but without success. It is certainly not anywhere around the perimeter of the house and none of the houses that are part of the terraced group have one on the walkway outside the front of houses, so we determined that it must be burried somewhere.
Im not on a meter and the only stopcock I have is in the kitchen coming in on a blue plastic 25mm pipe. The direction from which its coming into the concerete floor suggests that its coming from the rear garden and because the way the garden and neghbouring houses are layed out, if there is a valve somewhere its possible its located in a neighbouring property somewhere or burried in the garden.
The problem I see with measuring dynamic flow rate in my house is that the kitchen tap is shared from the mains with the tap in the garden located at the back of the kitchen and the rest of the taps upstairs are fed through the gravity system. When we measured the flow rate with the kitchen tap on full we get 14ltrs, when the garden tap is also fully open at the same time the kitchen drops to 7ltrs, so that proves these two share the pipe. Im not sure if turning on a tap fed by the gravity system as well will make and diference or not?
I have all of the calcs for radiator outputs done on a spreadsheet by using an online calculator, including room dimensions. My CH total comes in at 6678W, with a 17% oversize of the radiators (couldn get to 20-25% due to the radiators I chose to use) the CH total comes in at 7807W, so my CH requirements are pretty low at just below 8kW. So I now know that I need a boiler which will rate down to 7kW minimum for CH.
One area Im not 100% clear on is whether system controls such as an RF programmer whether on/of or opentherm is required if Im going to use a whether compensate outdoor sensor, or whether only one or the other can be used. Any views on this gents?
I have now shortlisted four companies which are Intergas platinum installers and will chase one or two of those to come in for a quote in the following weeks, as well as try to find other Veissmann accredited installers but that is turning out to be a tough ask
Can anyone here reccomend an Intergas or a Veissman installer in the Bedfordshire area whom I can speak to?Regards
Hum
A
ALEC1
what boiler is this?
if your heat load is only 8kw you would benefit from one that modulates below that currently thats an Atag or a new vaillant, although boilers that don't go are designed to cope with the low load generated by compensation controls...
if your heat load is only 8kw you would benefit from one that modulates below that currently thats an Atag or a new vaillant, although boilers that don't go are designed to cope with the low load generated by compensation controls...
If load is so low.
Air source heat pump. That will be the eco option run with renewable electric.
12kW will handle it even in cold conditions.
Air source heat pump. That will be the eco option run with renewable electric.
12kW will handle it even in cold conditions.
Ditto. Your old back boiler is going to be heating when that new fancy combi is being ripped off the wall as uneconomic to repair.
And when your well researched all singing all dancing techno miracle packs up
Ditto. Your old back boiler is going to be heating when that new fancy combi is being ripped off the wall as uneconomic to repair.
Thanks for the constructive commens guys
You know the old saying........if you have nothing useful to say.....
I have my reasons for needing to change and based on your levels of input, I dont feel its worth wasting my time justifying my reasons to you.
Regards
Hum
If you have a cheque for at least a tenner for Help for Heroes or Greyhound Rescue, your choice, I'll pop round one evening this week. My old test kit was never returned but I have a dusty old cheap gauge for static and dynamic pressure that might fit and a flow cup and that'll do it if it's even necessary.
If your house shares a covered passage the main might run down it but I don't remember that in that area. Look under a hedge if you have one at the front boundary.
Some of the posts are good advice, some unnecessary, some incomplete, some rubbish.
I will not recommend a boiler but I can discuss them.
PM if interested.
If your house shares a covered passage the main might run down it but I don't remember that in that area. Look under a hedge if you have one at the front boundary.
Some of the posts are good advice, some unnecessary, some incomplete, some rubbish.
I will not recommend a boiler but I can discuss them.
PM if interested.
A
ALEC1
agile if you pay by cheque you get a prompt payment discount of about 5%... so no you don't save anything if you pay monthly!
ALEC1, I cant argue for or against the various tariffs and payment methods available as Im new to house ownership and still in my first year so I dont know much about anything in that regard.
My strategy when I moved in was to get off the pre-payment meter and go on an online tariff where I submit meter readings on a monthly basis, in order to be able to determine my usage and pay for actual usage only, without the additional administration costs which apply when using a normal billing methods.
I am yet to get to 12months worth of usage statistics but what I have so far bearing in mind Im paying only for what I am using, shows me that I need to change as its unsustainable in the long term.
We could argue that one tariff or method of payment is +/- 5% in my favour, but at this juncture a more significant change in my favour is necessary. I will look at getting the best deal once Im done with this and I have 12 months under my belt.
With regards to your questions about the boiler, this is till to be determined which I cant do until I know my flow rate and pressure coming in. In terms of brands, Im going to choose between Veissmann, Intergas or Atag.
Regards
Hum
My strategy when I moved in was to get off the pre-payment meter and go on an online tariff where I submit meter readings on a monthly basis, in order to be able to determine my usage and pay for actual usage only, without the additional administration costs which apply when using a normal billing methods.
I am yet to get to 12months worth of usage statistics but what I have so far bearing in mind Im paying only for what I am using, shows me that I need to change as its unsustainable in the long term.
We could argue that one tariff or method of payment is +/- 5% in my favour, but at this juncture a more significant change in my favour is necessary. I will look at getting the best deal once Im done with this and I have 12 months under my belt.
With regards to your questions about the boiler, this is till to be determined which I cant do until I know my flow rate and pressure coming in. In terms of brands, Im going to choose between Veissmann, Intergas or Atag.
Regards
Hum
Good news. It appears that my wall cavities are filled, including the extension. The nice man who came to visit and consult today also offered to add 280mm loft insulation for £39GBP (the rest is grant subsidised). Result on both counts.
Bad news. I now need to re-calculate all of my radiator sizes since I went on the side of caution and used the cavity no insulation option
Also, thanks to some people from DYInot, I will soon have a good idea of the dynamic flow rate of the property and will finally be in a position to make an informed decision on a boiler.
Reccomended installers are still thin on the ground, however Im much happier to be getting down to only having to make a competence/overall solution selection from the installer base.
Regards
Hum
Bad news. I now need to re-calculate all of my radiator sizes since I went on the side of caution and used the cavity no insulation option
Also, thanks to some people from DYInot, I will soon have a good idea of the dynamic flow rate of the property and will finally be in a position to make an informed decision on a boiler.
Reccomended installers are still thin on the ground, however Im much happier to be getting down to only having to make a competence/overall solution selection from the installer base.
Regards
Hum
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
