New uPVC Underground Drain Fittings Seeping

[Ian H]

I use Osma and have never had a problem. The rubber sealing rings are stuck to the fitting so you can't displace them when you push the pipe in.

They will be available from loads of places, hopefully somewhere closer to you.

 

[Pin 5]

@Doggit
Lets see if he'll listen to you.

 

[Steelmasons]

I've decided now I'm not relying on ringseals to fully watertight the joint so every joint I make from now will be with solvent cement inside the ringseal joint..

The reason for using "ring seal" joints underground as opposed to solvent weld is for expansion/contraction/movement within the ground.
Good luck with using solvent cement on underground drainage cos it ain't gonna stick...
That is a complete mess , be easier to train a chimp.
Absolutely shameful , industry gone to the dogs.

 

[Tozzy]

The incoming swivel joint is okay, but the outgoing one is in the wrong direction, (even though there's a degree of reasoning to the way you've done it) as you always push the champhered end into the next seal, in the direction of the flow. You should have pushed the long piece into the outgoing spigot, and then made the angle adjustment at the other end.

But if the swivel part is leaking, then just take them back and say they are faulty. It might be a faf to go and get the better ones, but if the joints see, over a period of time, you'll get the ground sinking round the joint, and that'll mean redoing the job, with very soggy and stinky ground to dig up.

If you can get fixed angle joints to make the connections, then you'll end up with a much more secure job.

Thanks Doggit for taking the time to provide a thorough explanation, which clearly is more than what Dan Robinson cared to eleaborate on.

I use Osma and have never had a problem. The rubber sealing rings are stuck to the fitting so you can't displace them when you push the pipe in.

They will be available from loads of places, hopefully somewhere closer to you.

Yeah, I've heard of OSMA fittings, thanks, yeah they were briefly highlighted in the floplast installation video on youtube.

The reason for using "ring seal" joints underground as opposed to solvent weld is for expansion/contraction/movement within the ground.
Good luck with using solvent cement on underground drainage cos it ain't gonna stick...

"
Solvent-weld systems rely on the pipes, couplings and fittings being 'glued' together by means of a special solvent. Individual manufacturers provide jointing instructions, and the correct solvents/adhesives for their individual ranges.

Again there may be separate or in-built couplings, depending on the particular system chosen. It is essential that the manufacturers' jointing instructions are followed to the letter, and that solvent cements are not mixed between different products/manufacturers."

http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain02.htm#bed

Absolutely shameful , industry gone to the dogs.

Well, the fittings are bad, but I don't think they are that bad.

That is a complete mess , be easier to train a chimp.

Personally I think anyone would perceive this as verbal abuse. Therefore, I've reported this to the moderators to take appropriate action.

 

[Doggit]

It's possible that Steel hasn't read the thread from the beginning, and has assumed that you're a cowboy rather than a novice. We all learn somwhere, and some chimps get trained, and others have to work it out with a little bit of help.

And I suppose that would make me a glorified chimp at times, but I'm okay with that.

 

[Tozzy]

It's possible that Steel hasn't read the thread from the beginning, and has assumed that you're a cowboy rather than a novice. We all learn somwhere, and some chimps get trained, and others have to work it out with a little bit of help.

And I suppose that would make me a glorified chimp at times, but I'm okay with that.

Well, if I was a cowboy, I wouldn't have been desperately trying to figure out why the joints in my work are seeping. I wouldn't have bothered to take time out to make a thread on here, I'd just let them seep and carry on, get the job done and put my feet up, but I know that the fittings are designed in a way so that they don't seep, hence the ring seal system. Cowboys don't care about consequences and a lot of their work is done deliberately by taking time saving shortcuts in order to collect their pay check and get off site quickly. I don't know why he assumed I'm working in the trade?? What gave him that impression? If I was doing drainage for a living, I'd already have the prevention which is the cure. But I'm just someone on a tight budget trying to do the best job possible taking as much time as required. It's taken me a whole week just to get this far and it's tough I will admit. It seems easy when you see it done on video but it sure is not in reality. I really thought it was the case of just putting the parts together, but seems trickier than that, particarly as I'm working in a tight narrow space and working with an existing drainage run.

To be honest, I really don't think the images I've posted show the full picture, it's giving the illusion that the spigot of the adjustable bend going into the IC is crooked, but looks way exagerated on that picture so perhaps I could post some better ones up.

I'm sorry Doggit, I'm still trying to comprehend what you are telling me. I'm literally staring at the picture at the same time as reading your advice and I just can't see what you are seeing which is frustrating for me. As I've just said, if you mean it looks like it's going into the IC crooked, then I'll demonstrate on another picture. Other than that, I simply cannot see why these fittings would be inappropriate for this particular 'setup'. I've connected spigots to sockets, used the ac4000. I even showed my plans to the guy at the builder's merchant and he had no objections to the plans. But, I'm really not at all concerned about that section of run because early next year itll be coming out and the rest of that clay pipe will be out, therefore not requiring the adjustable bends but because that clay pipe is running at an awkward angle Ive had no choice to use adjustable bends. That's what they are for surely for awkward runs such as this.

Anyway, whether anyone cares or not, I'll be updating this thread with pictures of the final installation with everything in place. Hopefully there will be no more seeps!!

 

[aptsys]

He's saying that ideally the flow should follow into the female ends on those joints.

 

[Tozzy]

He's saying that ideally the flow should follow into the female ends on those joints.

Many thanks for that aptsys makes more sense now, but ok lets say I turn the fitting round, how would the male spigot end of that fitting connect to that pipe? That would mean connecting male end of spigot to male end of pipe which simply won't work right? And lets say instead I use a bit of offcut pipe to go into that socket from IC, it's essentially the same as if it were to keep it as is with the spigot end of that fitting inserted!

Really appreciate that picture, thanks again!

 

[Ian H]

A rubber seal doesn't know which way water passes it. It should be watertight in either direction and also watertight under pressure when/if the drain ever blocked.

 

[Tozzy]

A rubber seal doesn't know which way water passes it. It should be watertight in either direction and also watertight under pressure when/if the drain ever blocked.

Exactly Ian. So whatever male end is used whether pipe or fitting shouldn't make any difference as they are exactly the same and whatever is used, that female socket exiting the IC MUST receive a male end to make the connection. Unless it's not as simple as that.

 

[Ian H]

Yes, if you joint 2 pieces of pipe together with a socket you have 2 joints, 1facing each way.

I cannot imagine those adjustable bends have a direction of flow, if they did there would be an arrow on them.

My job yesterday was tiny but needed 6 joints:

 

[Tozzy]

Ok so I see you have all your male spigot joints going in the direction of flow. However, you still have your bit of pipe off cut male going in the opposite direction going into the outlet socket of your bottle gully. So why should a male end of an adjustable bend be an exception? This is all I'm getting at and it's simply just baffling me lol

I can really only think that offcut pipe is generally preferred to allow for expansion and movement hence why it's used to bridge the joint?

Good work there by the way Ian
Thanks for sharing.
Btw is that slip coupling or double socket you used?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Tozzy, I've worked on and around drains for the last 30 years, so can I suggest a few alterations? I have never had a ring seal joint from any manufacturer leak, (including Wickes), so possible something isn't quite right there.

Firstly, get rid of that adjustable bend where you're joining onto the existing clay drain, and go straight to your chamber with a sensible fall on the pipe. Use a 45° bend coming out the house, straight into that chamber, then use a couple of slow radius bends immediately outside that chamber, if you need to, to make up the height difference. Wickes do 10, 20 and 30° bends, I'd get 2 of each, offer these up and see if that will do what you need to. Do not assemble until 100% satisfied, as any unused parts should be returnable for credit.

Even if you have to tilt the 2 bends slightly away from the house to height the required height for the chamber, this is preferable to using those adjustable bends. You can also move the chamber position to accommodate.

 

[Ian H]

It's a double socket, I did want to use a 90degree bend straight onto the clay but it wouldn't fit with the ducting. I ended up using 2x45's and the socket.

I could still cctv down to the shared drain easy enough.

 

[Tozzy]

Tozzy, I've worked on and around drains for the last 30 years, so can I suggest a few alterations? I have never had a ring seal joint from any manufacturer leak, (including Wickes), so possible something isn't quite right there.

Firstly, get rid of that adjustable bend where you're joining onto the existing clay drain, and go straight to your chamber with a sensible fall on the pipe. Use a 45° bend coming out the house, straight into that chamber, then use a couple of slow radius bends immediately outside that chamber, if you need to, to make up the height difference. Wickes do 10, 20 and 30° bends, I'd get 2 of each, offer these up and see if that will do what you need to. Do not assemble until 100% satisfied, as any unused parts should be returnable for credit.

Even if you have to tilt the 2 bends slightly away from the house to height the required height for the chamber, this is preferable to using those adjustable bends. You can also move the chamber position to accommodate.

Hi Hugh Jaleak - thanks for that. Well, it's comforting to know that the ringseals aren't generally prone to leaking then. I can relax a bit better reading that. I'm not really too concerned regarding the connections at the clay pipe simply because the section in the picture will be removed again at a later date (thus requiring only a straight run with no fittings) because the clay pipe there in the picture hasn't got the correct fall on it (It's sunk over 20 years), but sadly I can't replace that just at this stage in my life due to other commitments (and mainly because of lack of confidence to tackle the entire site, front and side in one swoop). By the time, I've finished the side which is 8m with 3 gullies, I'll be about ready to tackle the front. Thought as I'm still at the beginning, I swapped the defective parts like you said, and bridged the joint there with offcut pipe and used double socket adjustable bend which will connect tomorrow to longer offcut pipe directly into the adaptor.

Added a branch and assembled first gully. As you can see I've kept the adjustable bend spigot fitting simply because I'm not concerned about it. The picture's skewed but the IC is perfectly level.

A great tip by the way for any novices (like myself) I came across somewhere was to wrap newspaper over the pipe and tape it before cutting. If the cut still isn't precise afterwards, move the newspaper up to the edge where it's level and file away any protruding irregularities. It's an extremely fool proof technique and gives a square cut every time. Also, I've learned that chamferring the edges just right is important too so as not to dislodge the seal upon insertion.
Hopefully some more updates soon when I finally get this completed.