NICEIC electrician produces certificate years after job

[taz777]

I've just purchased a property and during the purchase process my solicitors requested certificates for recent electrical work carried out at the property. The work was carried out 4-5 year ago and consisted of a new fuse box to serve the kitchen. The old fuse box was retained for the remainder of the property and none of that wiring was modified.

The vendors called the electrical contrator back in February and he managed to produce a certificated dated mid-February of this year for work carried out 4-5 years ago.

I've recently had several electrical contractors in to merge the wiring into a single fuse box and replace the old wiring. All have condemned the electrics as unsafe. There is an electric shower with no pull cord or stop button and no isolater switch. The earth bonding to the copper water pipes is hanging loose. The spot lights in the bathroom are all 240V lights and the one immediately above the electric shower is not rated for bathrooms!

The electrical contractor in question, who is an NICEIC member, seems vague and doesn't recall any of the work yet his name and company address and membership number are on the certificate paperwork. He's now avoiding my calls.

What comeback do I have for any of this?

 

[JohnD]

The work was carried out 4-5 year ago and consisted of a new fuse box to serve the kitchen.

Are you claiming that the work he did on the kitchen circuit was unsatisfactory? Or are you just grumbling that you bought a house with an old electrical system that was unsatisfactory, and you didn't have it inspected until after you'd bought it?

 

[taz777]

The electrician certified the work a few weeks ago as meeting current regulations. The work does not meet current regulations and is dangerous.

Is it allowable to certify work several years after it was carried out?

 

[JohnD]

The work was carried out 4-5 year ago and consisted of a new fuse box to serve the kitchen.

Are you claiming that the work he did on the kitchen circuit was unsatisfactory?

Please answer this question.

 

[taz777]

Yes. There is a leak in at least one of the circuits. The hob extractor isolator switch neon stays dimly lit even when that switch is switched off. The earthing cable to the copper pipework is not connected. There is no heat detector in the kitchen. Some of the older (original) sockets are exposed and are still live (still connected to the old fuse box). All of the appliances have 'floating' sockets (basically a mains cable connected to socket that isn't affixed anywhere. None of those sockets is in a position to switch the appliance off at the mains should the need arise - they are all on the floor behind the appliances.

He certified all of the work a few weeks ago.

 

[JohnD]

Yes. There is a leak in at least one of the circuits. The hob extractor isolator switch neon stays dimly lit even when that switch is switched off.

That bit could be related to the work he did. However none of us can prove that it was faulty when he did it. Nothing lasts for ever

The earthing cable to the copper pipework is not connected. There is no heat detector in the kitchen. Some of the older (original) sockets are exposed and are still live (still connected to the old fuse box).

That sounds like you are describing parts of the installation that he was not responsible for. There is no obligation for the electrician to fit a heat detector, nor to remove old existing sockets unless this was within the scope of work he was paid to do. I don't know if you are describing old supplementary bonding (no longer obligatory in a klitchen) or main bonding of the incoming water supply pipe

All of the appliances have 'floating' sockets (basically a mains cable connected to socket that isn't affixed anywhere. None of those sockets is in a position to switch the appliance off at the mains should the need arise - they are all on the floor behind the appliances.

Are these sockets part of the installation he did 5 years ago?

 

[taz777]

Yes, the sockets are part of the work he carried out a few years ago. All of the electrics in the kitchen was done by the electrician. That's the issue - some of it is not compliant with the certification that he produced a few weeks ago. And that's really my issue.

 

[JohnD]

Some of the older (original) sockets are exposed and are still live (still connected to the old fuse box).

but surely that isn't part of the installation he did 5 years ago?

his certificate can only apply to the work he did then, as it was at that time. For example the neon switch is unlikely to have been worn out or faulty when it was new.

It sounds to me like you have an old house that needs a comprehensive rewire, and are hoping to get a bit of money off the previous electrician towards it. Or am I misjudging you?

 

[Spark123]

As you have now had other people in working on the installation you cannot complain to NICIEC about the technical standards of his workmanship, they won't persue it on these grounds.

 

[taz777]

Some of the older (original) sockets are exposed and are still live (still connected to the old fuse box).

but surely that isn't part of the installation he did 5 years ago?

his certificate can only apply to the work he did then, as it was at that time. For example the neon switch is unlikely to have been worn out or faulty when it was new.

It sounds to me like you have an old house that needs a comprehensive rewire, and are hoping to get a bit of money off the previous electrician towards it. Or am I misjudging you?

The money side of things is neither here nor there. It's just how he magicked up a certificate years after he did the work and refuses to discuss it on the phone.

I'm not after any money at all. I'm after a SAFE property where the electrical work is NOT dangerous. He put up a floating socket within inches of another socket in the kitchen that is fully exposed and is live - this was behind a fridge.

I thought the whole point of certification was that the work complied with current regulations? And I also thought that electrics cannot be retrospectively certified. Three other electrical contractors have told me that you get 28 days to certify your work. The contractor that I am talking about has taken 4-5 years to (retrospecitvely) certify his work.

My concern is that he may be doing similar things in other properties and whether I can report him. If not, what's the point of NICEIC membership?

 

[taz777]

As you have now had other people in working on the installation you cannot complain to NICIEC about the technical standards of his workmanship, they won't persue it on these grounds.

Nobody else has worked on the installation. Three electrical contractors have been around to quote for a partial rewire (for the old fuse box and electrics served by that fuse box). However, in order to certify the electrics, they would have to safety check all of the electrics and that includes the new fuse box serving the wiring in the kitchen. And all have reported similar faults with that wiring and were surprised that I showed them a certiifcate dated February 2011 when the actual work for the 'new' kitchen wiring was done 4-5 years ago.

 

[1john]

Contact the NICEIC. see what they say.

 

[taz777]

One other thing that was pointed out to me: the new fuse box serving the kitchen is an RCD fuse box so all of the circuits served by that fuse box are RCD protected. There are around five fuses (cooker, washing machine, fridge, tumble dryer and lighting) served by the new fuse box.

I was told that using an RCD-only type of fuse box for the above is incorrect. Is this correct?

 

[1john]

The problem you have got is that you want people to pull this work apart, and they are going to do that with much joy and then spout on about how much bigger their pen15 is than the last guys. Contact the Niceic, they will arrange for another contractor to assess the work that has been scheduled on the certificate. An installation shouldn't have a single point of failure as such and seeing as this RCD tripping wouldn't affect every circuit in the house it isn't specifically a problem. I'm not saying things could have been designed better but some things come down to budget too. See the difference in price of a CU with two RCD's and a CU fully loaded with RCBO's and you'll get my drift.

 

[nozspark]

IMHO I don't think you'll get anywhere with this

the work was carried out 4-5 years ago, in that time anyone could have tampered with it (that'll be his defence) and whilst he has issued a certificate for his work only a few weeks ago, it could be a copy of the original (which the previous owner has since lost) which could bear no resembelance to the current (tampered with) installation