No Earth Apparantly

[david_galashiels]

During a service call from Scottish Gas to my combi boiler I was informed that there was a problem with my mains supply in the house. He conncted a device to a socket in my kitchen containing 3 LEDs, 2 of them lit up green but the one in the position of the earth pin was orange, which he said, indicated that the entire house may not be earthed. He tried this device in various sockets around the house and each displayed the same problem.

My questions are:

How can I get an earth connection into the house - there doesn't appear to be any earth cable at the fusebox at all.

How could the house be sold without this being picked up (we only bought it in May this year)

The engineer from Scottish Gas recommended that I get an electrician a.s.a.p. which is fine, but am I responsible for footing the bill to get this work carried out. The fuse box is old - one of the old ones with the fuse wire screwed into a ceramic holder thinggy and we had intended to upgrade this anyway to one with trip switches / circuit breaker etc.

 

[JohnD]

How can I get an earth connection into the house - there doesn't appear to be any earth cable at the fusebox at all.

Your electricity supplier should be able to provide an earth connection at the meter. This may cost in the region of £50 - £100. Or there might be one available already. There is a faint chance they might do it free. Write to the address on your electricity bill and ask for one.

It will be up to you and your electrician to connect it to your household circuits.

Rarely, they may not be able to provide one, and you will need an earth spike driven into the ground.

If you can lay your hands on a digital camera and put up photos showing the area around the incoming service, the meter and your fusebox, we may comment more.

How could the house be sold without this being picked up (we only bought it in May this year)

If you look at your Surveyors Report, I bet you 50p it says something about the electrical installation being obsolete and recommending you get an electrician in to test it.

 

[david_galashiels]

I will take a picture of the board tonight and post it. Thanks.

 

[Richard C]

David if you’re going to upgrade to a modern consumer unit anyway, I would bring this work forward as you will almost certainly need to have earth bonding fitted from the gas/oil/water/CH pipes back to the consumer unit. As for providing an earth for the house, this can be done usually be done through the main supply but if this is not possible by an earth rod driven into the ground & wired back to the c/u (as mine was). You may also like to think about having the lighting circuits upgraded as well, these will probably only be wired line & neutral as most older houses were; or depending on how old the system is, you may be safer to have the whole property rewired if the system is past it.

I had some equally nasty surprises in store on the rural, 60’s property we bought 2 years ago & all my independent, full survey report said was “the electrical system is old & should be inspected”. Great; after taking one look at it, the electrician I'd brought in to do some work on the kitchen & a new conservatory condemned it! The survey also failed to spot some moderately serious woodworm in the garage loft & I had problems with blocked drains 5 days after we moved in; they had obviously been blocked for months but the report said they were OK! There was a lot of utterly useless information about water tables, proximity of water courses & flood risk (we live on top of a hill!) but the things that really mattered were not properly inspected. Unless I knew there were obvious problems with a property, I would not bother going this route again, if you’ve got any idea of what you’re looking at, you are just as likely to spot potential problems as they are. I will probably get castigated by any surveyors using this forum but, in my view, its money for old rope. In my case was a complete waste of nearly a grand (for ½ a day’s work!) but I did manage to get some compensation to sort out the drain problem.

 

[david_galashiels]

The property was originally built in 1879 and was a corner shop and a house. In 1974 or thereabouts the shop closed and it was converted to a large 3 bedroomed flat. I would guess that is when the wiring dates from but could be wrong. I can't believe though that no-one has spotted this problem before, given that there have been at least 3 previous owners. I would have thought at the very least that when the combi boiler was installed in 2002 that this would have been picked up then. Just goes to show...

I will have a look at the lighting wiring too and let you know what it is like.

The replacement of the fuse box is now a priority for us and we will be looking to get this done a.s.a.p.

 

[JohnD]

If you have rewirable ceramic fusefolders, they will not be from 1974 or even 1964. Much more likely 1934.

The wire will probably (!) be younger.

 

[david_galashiels]

If you have rewirable ceramic fusefolders, they will not be from 1974 or even 1964. Much more likely 1934.

Really? As old as that?

 

[Adam_151]

With a pic we will be able to date it more accuratly, though I'm not sure John D is quite right, there was a pic of a MEM board on here a while ago that had ceramic fuseholders that was definatly not that old

Do be aware if you are messing around there the board that it might not be as enclosed as a modern board, so watch your fingers, and secondly, it may well contain asbestos!

 

[david_galashiels]

Thanks for the advice. I will simply remove one of the fuses and take a picture as well as an overall view of the board so you can see the type.

 

[Adam_151]

Thanks for the advice. I will simply remove one of the fuses and take a picture as well as an overall view of the board so you can see the type.

The asbestoes if it is exists is most likely going to be exposed when you take the fuseholder out (int the fuse behind the fusewire is likely), so be careful not to disturb it too much

Also, switch off the power before removing to fitting fuses

 

[securespark]

David

I've heard Scottish Gas do electrical cover, as well as boiler cover. Have you got it? If you have call them out.

 

[david_galashiels]

Yes they do - I have a homecare policy with them but not to cover the electrics sadly. Attached are the pictures of my installation. There is actually an earth wire there albeit a very thin one, however, it was not connected to the main earth wire coming out of the ground. I have since reconnected it, hoping that everything will now be ok. I still want to get a new fuse box anyway, so will still go ahead with that.

 

[JohnD]

Ah - not what i was thinking of as ceramic fuseholders. That's a Wylex Standard. The brown ones were in use in the 1960's and early 1970's, and a cream version is still made, but rewirables are not. The later MCBs and cartridge holders fit the old ones. Max total load is probably 60Amps.

The incoming service looks like it's covered in tarrred cloth, and may be lead underneath, or possibly steel.

I can see a G&Y cable near the incoming servive, does this appear to come from a pipe clamp round the incomer, or is there a terminal on the side or bottom of the service head?

I can't see a PME label.

How big is the G&Y, compared to a pencil?

 

[securespark]

Ah - not what i was thinking of as ceramic fuseholders. That's a Wylex Standard. The brown ones were in use in the 1960's and early 1970's, and a cream version is still made, but rewirables are not.

The Standard dates back to late 50's IIRC.

Rewireables still made, oh yes indeedy!!

 

[JohnD]

Rewireables still made, oh yes indeedy!!

Good grief! So they are! page 22 of my catalogue!