All I was trying to say is that if class I appliances with earthed casings are allowed, it makes no sense to say that you can't earth the casing of what would otherwise be a class II appliance. If the latter somehow creates an unacceptable risk due to some possible external fault, then surely so does the former?
No earth cable on light fitting
- Thread starter stephen12345
- Start date
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It may be an idea to look inside some switches and some of the other lights in the house to see if the rest of the wiring has an earth, to get some idea what to expect BERORE smashing holes in the plaster ceiling rose.
Often those plaster roses are put up by DIYers or plasterers who butcher the wiring in the process.
This is apparent in your photos - I suspect there is a dodgy joint above that rose. The wiring we can see looks awful. One would expect to see a blue neutral wire there.
Maybe you can cut a nice neat hole in that rose which can be covered up by the/a light fitting.
Looks like you need to see above that rose anyway, because it's clearly a balls up.
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Indeed - but, as I've said, in the latter case it is an unnecessary (very small) additional risk, whereas in the former case it is a necessary (very small) additional risk.
There's not really any question of 'unacceptable' since it would be totally 'allowed' for you to line the entire inside of your house with (unnecessarily) earthed metal if you so wished.
Kind Regards, John
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Not wanting to sound like one of B-A-S' arguments about reasonableness here, but could the introduction of that (very small) additional risk then be taken to imply that class I appliances should not be used at all?
As above - There is the choice of not using the class I appliance but going for class II instead.
You install a class II light fixture, for example, but bolt an earth onto the metalwork anyway. How is the result any different than if you'd just chosen to use a class I fixture instead? Either way you end up with a light fixture on the wall or ceiling which has earthed metalwork.
Going back to Winston's points about audio-visual equipment, while many consumer devices might be class II, there are very good reasons for providing an earth to the casings anyway, especially once you have five or six such units all connected up together.
What if the MIs tell you not to connect an earth?
That doesn't affect the basic electrical arguments.
Yes, buy plastic ones.
Don't use them then.
Because you have introduced a hazard which was not there before.
What are those reasons?
Please let me know when you find a plastic washing machine.
The manufacturer knows why he has chosen to declare his product is Class II, you or I don't.
I don't think so. As I've said, and as you understand, I'm not talking about an additional risk specifically related to the item in question but, rather, am referring to the general undesirability of having any 'unnecessarily earthed' metal around. So long as there are no rules/laws forbidding you from filling your house with earthed metal, there could not really be a case for banning Class I appliances (or Class II appliances with their outer metal casing earthed).
Kind Regards, John
With current regs, all one has to do is 'take account of' the MIs - there is no longer any obligation to 'obey' them. If (with one exception, as below) connecting an outer metal casing of a Class II piece of equipment to earth has any impact on safety of the equipment, then there would surely be something very wrong with the Class II provisions?
The one exception is if it were not possible to establish an earth connection to the casing without risking damaging the item - a situation which may not be uncommon, since a Class II item will not normally come with any factory-fitted means of earthing any exposed metal.
I say all this just to answer your question. However I still do not think it wise/sensible to unnecessarily earth any exposed metal parts of Class II equipment.
Kind Regards, John
You ignore them. The MI are not a legal requirement.
I can think of another.
Ignoring them is not "taking account" of them.
Dont be shy, then
Is this an electrical reason, or a bureaucratic/ regulatory/ insurance/ contractual/ whatever one?Kind Regards, John
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