No experience,so looking for advice.Pics added

[joe-90]

I've never seen tiles fall off due to weight issues - ever. I've taken tiles off that have been there for decades - yet you could pull them off with your fingers - yet they never fell off.

The weight of the tile is downward - and the only thing downward is the floor - where do you expect them to go Richard? Sink into the floorboards? Tiles will stand up on their own with a bit of blue tack at the back,. Try it.

You’re obviously in one of your moods this afternoon joe So you think I make all this stuff up; for what possible reason? FFS give me a break! I’d been plastering for a couple of years or so & then started into bath/shower rooms including tiling around 2006 &, I can assure you, I was equally surprised to learn about the weight limits for various substrates. When folks had the of 6” x 6” x ¼” "Crystal" tiles of yesteryear it wasn’t a problem but when they started demanding much bigger tiles & 60 x 30 x 1cm tiles started falling off the wall perhaps BG, all the (decent) tile adhesive manufacturers & the Tiling Association decided to do extensive tests to find out why; & then just made it all up for the sheer hell of it

I don’t write the manufacturers technical specs &, starting from very little experience, I just followed them when I started doing this around 2006. Quiet honestly, I have no desire to prove them wrong, invalidate my product warranty & have to pay to fix a failure myself; I’ve never had a failure or intend having one. If you or anyone else wants to ignore the tech stuff that’s your prerogative, “frankly my dear I don’t give a damn”; your choice!

But don’t take my word for it go check it out for yourself, you or anyone else are quiet at liberty to do so & prove me, BG, BAL, Mapei, Webber, etc etc & the TA wrong. This info is widely available on the net from various sources but, better still, ring one of the technical help lines & get a definitive answer. Good luck

So how many bathrooms have you personally visited and have seen actual evidence of tiles pulling plaster/render off the walls? I'll tell you. None. Neither have I. You are an intelligent man - so give me the maths that prove tiles defy gravity and pull sideways.

 

[Richard C]

So how many bathrooms have you personally visited and have seen actual evidence of tiles pulling plaster/render off the walls? I'll tell you. None. Neither have I. You are an intelligent man - so give me the maths that prove tiles defy gravity and pull sideways.

Now you’re just trolling me . I’ve seen plenty of evidence or tiles falling off the wall, which includes failing plaster but, most common, is crap plasterboard failure. If you were to see some of the failures I have to put right, you would not believe it; but knowing what you (seem) to do, I’m sure you have! Your post would indicate you don’t know much about structural loadings or physics but I’m not really interested in arguing the toss with you about it!

 

[Richard C]

The tiles we were goin to buy work out at 18.75kg /square metre, a bit over the figures stated. I had no idea they would be so heavy.

Well there you go, I was right on that one at least Your only marginally over the limit & if I’m right with a safety factor & general “feeling” (lime plaster/render aside), you should be OK; but don’t blame me if it goes wrong.

I'd really like to work with what i've got, i certainly don't fancy/couldn't afford to take the lime render off,and start from scratch, so it looks like i'm needing lighter tiles.

Don’t know, I’m not a lime render specialist; ask peaps. You might need to overboard if you want to stick with it.

Surely though a square metre of large size tiles weighs the same as a square metre of smaller sized tiles?

No

I imagine smaller tiles are thinner, and therefore not as heavy.

That’s why; the type of tile makes a difference to weight but generally anything over 8mm can be a weight problem with plaster & will definately need cement powder adhesive; even more so if the tiles are over 30cm; I usually switch from tub at around 25cm; depends on tile base.

Right, assuming i buy smaller lighter tiles, what next? Do i treat the exposed lime render with something before tiling to seal it ? Or, do i just use 'cement powder adhesive', without sealing the exposed lime render, ie, spread it on over the existing sound plaster and the exposed lime render?

Probably not but, again, I’m not a lime plaster specialist so I don’t know. I can check for you but maybe peaps or joe might know the answer; if so & as I’m currently loosing the will to live, follow their advice explicitly

 

[broontroot]

Thanks for the advice and err...differing opinions lads, my 1st post and i'm like '****, look what i've started



As i said, advice much appreciated !

Cheers

 

[Richard C]

Thanks for the advice and err...differing opinions lads, my 1st post and i'm like 's**t, look what i've started

Not normal, not your fault & I'm sorry it' s marred your thread. It’s Sunday, there doesn't seem to be that much going on in the Forum & I think the current heat wave may have had an influence; or maybe it’s to do with 5 planets being in close proximity, who knows

 

[joe-90]

So how many bathrooms have you personally visited and have seen actual evidence of tiles pulling plaster/render off the walls? I'll tell you. None. Neither have I. You are an intelligent man - so give me the maths that prove tiles defy gravity and pull sideways.

Now you’re just trolling me . I’ve seen plenty of evidence or tiles falling off the wall, which includes failing plaster but, most common, is crap plasterboard failure. If you were to see some of the failures I have to put right, you would not believe it; but knowing what you (seem) to do, I’m sure you have! Your post would indicate you don’t know much about structural loadings or physics but I’m not really interested in arguing the toss with you about it!

I'm a smart cookie. I know exactly how gravity works. It doesn't force tiles off the wall. If you can prove physics wrong then go ahead. (he won't),

 

[broontroot]

I havn't got the money to take it back to the brick, and board it , working to a budget, so.........
it looks like i've 2 choices, take a chance on the big heavy tiles, OR buy smaller lighter tiles.

No matter what tile i use, do i put them straight on using cement powder adhesive? The areas where the topcoat has pulled away is anything up to 1/4 inch lower than the wall surface. Huge areas of topcoat is ready to pull away in the tiled shower area, it sounds very hollow.

At the moment, as i won't be starting the work 'till i'm on holiday in a few weeks time, do i seal the exposed patches of render?
I ask this as the shower is used every day, and i was thinking that the exposed areas where the topcoat has pulled off could be sucking in moisture, could this happen?
If it needs 'sealed', how do i do it, and what with? I do have a tub of pva.

Thanks

 

[Richard C]

I havn't got the money to take it back to the brick, and board it , working to a budget

Unwise to start any project if you haven’t got the funds to cover all eventualities that may arise; why spoil the ship for a ha’poth of tar! If you’re taking care of the labour, the cost of boarding materials isn’t great & will be a small % of the overall cost of your project.

so.........it looks like i've 2 choices, take a chance on the big heavy tiles, OR buy smaller lighter tiles.

I have only seen photos but from what you say about the condition of the base coat, either of the these options will carry a risk. Your choice really but if the base is shot & it’s not done properly, the tiles will quickly fail & having to start all over again will be even more expensive!

No matter what tile i use, do i put them straight on using cement powder adhesive? The areas where the topcoat has pulled away is anything up to 1/4 inch lower than the wall surface.

Use cement powder adhesive or quickset render to fill & level. For tiles up to around 25cm or over 8mm thick use powder adhesive. Smaller tiles (25cm or less) can be fixed with a decent (with the emphasis on decent) trade tub ready mix.

Huge areas of topcoat is ready to pull away in the tiled shower area, it sounds very hollow.

It has to come off, you cant tile over it.

At the moment, as i won't be starting the work 'till i'm on holiday in a few weeks time, do i seal the exposed patches of render? I ask this as the shower is used every day, and i was thinking that the exposed areas where the topcoat has pulled off could be sucking in moisture, could this happen? If it needs 'sealed', how do i do it, and what with? I do have a tub of pva.

You need to protect it from water, if it gets into the render you will have to let it dry out & it may cause more damage, easiest way is to hang a shower curtain over it or cover it with some polythene.

 

[joe-90]

If you haven't got the money then stick it on your credit card. A complete botch job will be a waste of money.

 

[broontroot]

I've been given a phone number for a plasterer who's done a few jobs for workmates, so i'll give him a call tomorrow.

From what i've read on here Lime render was mostly used on older properties than mine (mine was built 1956), and mostly used on walls without a cavity,whereas mine does has a cavity.

Hopefully the plasterer will be able to confirm if it is indeed lime plaster or not.

It is well bonded to the brick, no brick is exposed anywhere, and when i tap the exposed render it sounds solid, not hollow. Its only topcoat layer coming away in places.

If it is confirmed as Lime, then i'll do the job correct, and take it back to the bare brick,and board it.

What do you call the panels/boards it looks like i need, what are they known as,so i can do some searches on the forum for info ?

Cheers

 

[1john]

Its not uncommon to have lime on a cavity wall. Is the top coat of plaster (the bit thats falling away) pinky or orange or is it a whiteish grey? Where the backing coat is on show is it soft? can you scrape a screwdriver into it quite easily? Also the hollow sound in your shower cubicle could be that the tiles are not stuck to the wall in places, I have witnessed a whole wall where the tiles were not actually bonded to the wall and only the grout was holding the lot together!!

 

[joe-90]

Also the hollow sound in your shower cubicle could be that the tiles are not stuck to the wall in places, I have witnessed a whole wall where the tiles were not actually bonded to the wall and only the grout was holding the lot together!!

Try telling that to Richard. According to him tiles fall off if they are too heavy.

 

[Richard C]

Also the hollow sound in your shower cubicle could be that the tiles are not stuck to the wall in places, I have witnessed a whole wall where the tiles were not actually bonded to the wall and only the grout was holding the lot together!!

Try telling that to Richard. According to him tiles fall off if they are too heavy.

The hollow sounding tiles may be due to them not being stuck to the wall & it’s not uncommon; this is usually due to incorrect prep, using the wrong size trowel, incorrect prep, wrong type/cheap crap adhesive or water getting behind the tiles. It may also be that the plaster skim has failed & delaminated from the base coat. It’s entirely possible tiles may fall off if you use the wrong type of adhesive or the prep is wrong, the plaster they are fixed can also delaminate from the base coat if the tiles are too heavy for the plaster skim to support.

Why don’t you give it rest & stop being an arse joe, your just making yourself look stupid!

 

[broontroot]

Its not uncommon to have lime on a cavity wall. Is the top coat of plaster (the bit thats falling away) pinky or orange or is it a whiteish grey? Where the backing coat is on show is it soft? can you scrape a screwdriver into it quite easily? Also the hollow sound in your shower cubicle could be that the tiles are not stuck to the wall in places, I have witnessed a whole wall where the tiles were not actually bonded to the wall and only the grout was holding the lot together!!

The *original' top-coat is Grey in colour*, it can be seen in the pics.
Other areas of top-coat are a sort of pink in colour, i know this area,(shower area) was replastered around 20 years ago due to the bathroom being extended into the hall, so as to give room to fit the shower cubicle,that would explain the different colours of topcoat.

Yes, the backing coat is soft, i can scrape it with a screwdriver fairly easily.

The shower area which has been replastered 20 years ago, huge areas of tile are coming away from the wall as can be seen in this pic, it looks like what you described above.



In these pics you can see the Grey coloured topcoat, also some white/pink topcoat.




Thanks.

 

[joe-90]

Also the hollow sound in your shower cubicle could be that the tiles are not stuck to the wall in places, I have witnessed a whole wall where the tiles were not actually bonded to the wall and only the grout was holding the lot together!!

Try telling that to Richard. According to him tiles fall off if they are too heavy.

The hollow sounding tiles may be due to them not being stuck to the wall & it’s not uncommon; this is usually due to incorrect prep, using the wrong size trowel, incorrect prep, wrong type/cheap crap adhesive or water getting behind the tiles. It may also be that the plaster skim has failed & delaminated from the base coat. It’s entirely possible tiles may fall off if you use the wrong type of adhesive or the prep is wrong, the plaster they are fixed can also delaminate from the base coat if the tiles are too heavy for the plaster skim to support.

Why don’t you give it rest & stop being an a**e joe, your just making yourself look stupid!

Live in the real world mate. The world where tiles don't fall through the floor. Stop being 'jobsworth'.