No Firrings installed on flat roof - Who’s Responsibility

[Notch7]

I would love to but it was my wife. We arranged trades ourself to try and save some money. It seemed a simple 1 storey extension project.

Ah, so we kind of know why it happened.

Personally I think it’s weird the roofer did the boarding -normal practice would be the carpenter does the joists, firrings, boarding, fascia etc and a GRP guy comes in to do that with all associated trims etc.

I personally would’ve done a warm roof.

Are you confident the cold roof is adequately ventilated?

Do you have spotlights that penetrate the cold roof void?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Any competent roofer would notice there's no fall as would any competent builder, it's not difficult to tell. Quoting NHBC guidelines has no merit here.

 

[Notch7]

The roofers stance is he quoted for OSB and GRP coating. I still think though they should have noticed there were no firings and checked for a fall. I have checked NHBC and 7.1.4.4 states about a deck survey to check for backfalls before laying the coating. If they complied with this they would have found out about the fall. Even though they installed the deck in the first place. This might be something to go back to them with.

The person who laid the boards is the one at fault.

You mentioned you need falls in 2 directions…..so WTF did they just lay the boards flat, a fall in 2 directions would’ve needed a fair bit of setting out as effectively a hip would’ve been needed and thus the firrings and boarding cuts would need to be fairly complex

I’m guessing you have guttering on 2 sides?

 

[Notch7]

Any competent roofer would notice there's no fall as would any competent builder, it's not difficult to tell. Quoting NHBC guidelines has no merit here.

My guess is the builder went away after having got to joisting, the roofer came in and maybe had a couple of “lads” board it.

Oops

 

[Evo78]

So if it’s not standard practice for the roofer to board maybe they were not used to doing it and missed the firrings. They could have just told us to get the builder to do it, but they priced it accordingly. They are father and son, both came out to board and lay the GRP. They were rushed on the day however and are apparently very busy so it was probably a rushed job.
The builder only had the render to finish so he was not on sight.
I think I won’t get anywhere with who should have installed the firrings, it’s probably more that they should have checked and not carried on. As I said though they were busy so maybe didn’t want to delay the job and have to come back. If that is the case it’s pretty slack as they would know it would never pass building control.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So if it’s not standard practice for the roofer to board maybe they were not used to doing it and missed the firrings. They could have just told us to get the builder to do it, but they priced it accordingly. They are father and son, both came out to board and lay the GRP. They were rushed on the day however and are apparently very busy so it was probably a rushed job.
The builder only had the render to finish so he was not on sight.

The roofers, should have more expertise on rooves, and drainage of such, than the builder, so they should have checked, and been happy with the slope, before proceeding with their part of the job. The fact that they were so rushed, and omitted to check something so very basic, makes me even more inclined towards it being the roofers fault.

Slope, or the lack of proper slope, is just so obvious that it should have immediately set the alarm bells ringing for the roofer.

 

[datarebal]

Builder . The roofer should have highlighted the lack of fall though .
I'm surprised the roofer decked it anyway

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Builder . The roofer should have highlighted the lack of fall though .
I'm surprised the roofer decked it anyway

The builder must put the roof joists in level, so the ceiling under it is level, so firings have to be fitted to get the slope on the flat roof. The lack of which, ought to have been obvious.

 

[kp00110]

Sounds like you are to blame unfortunately as the captain of the ship on this project. No good blaming the trades who are blaming each other. Communication may have been a bit lacking on this one unfortunately. Hopefully gets fixed in the end for you

 

[Notch7]

Sounds like you are to blame unfortunately as the captain of the ship on this project. No good blaming the trades who are blaming each other. Communication may have been a bit lacking on this one unfortunately. Hopefully gets fixed in the end for you

it is one of the risks of self project managing: you dont know what you dont know

 

[Notch7]

So if it’s not standard practice for the roofer to board maybe they were not used to doing it and missed the firrings. They could have just told us to get the builder to do it, but they priced it accordingly. They are father and son, both came out to board and lay the GRP. They were rushed on the day however and are apparently very busy so it was probably a rushed job.
The builder only had the render to finish so he was not on sight.
I think I won’t get anywhere with who should have installed the firrings, it’s probably more that they should have checked and not carried on. As I said though they were busy so maybe didn’t want to delay the job and have to come back. If that is the case it’s pretty slack as they would know it would never pass building control.

its one of those things that can happen, as somebody in the trade I know setting out the falls is very important and I wouldve been on the case to both parties to make sure it was done

unfortunately you guys didnt know and never asked the question before the roofer started -I agree its a bit mad he didnt think about it before cutting and fitting the boards.

Personally I would try and get the 2 parties to help as much as you can and for yourself just accept you will have to suck up the cost.

If otherwise you have a lovely extension and the work passes building control, dont get too upset, in a few years you will be enjoying your larger house

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I really can't see how the OP is to blame for a roofers incompetence. How many of you, hand on heart (if you're honest and good tradesmen) would just fit a deck and finish on top of some joists on a flat roof without considering the fall. Absolutely bananas!

 

[foxhole]

Sounds like you got the Earp brothers.

 

[mrrusty]

I really can't see how the OP is to blame for a roofers incompetence. How many of you, hand on heart (if you're honest and good tradesmen) would just fit a deck and finish on top of some joists on a flat roof without considering the fall. Absolutely bananas!

This, but you are where you are. It sounds like the builder is playing ball as they probably feel some responsibility. Now you have to weigh up the cost of the new GRP v the cost/hassle of going legal in a complex situation which there is no guarantee you would win. Personally, I would take what you have and suck up the rest.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

This, but you are where you are. It sounds like the builder is playing ball as they probably feel some responsibility. Now you have to weigh up the cost of the new GRP v the cost/hassle of going legal in a complex situation which there is no guarantee you would win. Personally, I would take what you have and suck up the rest.

No, the OP would have been in a better position, had he just left it all to the builder to sort it out, but instead he engaged two separate companies to do the work and relied upon them showing normal competence. As such, he can expect the work done by the companies to be competently completed. The roofer failed miserably in that respect, because they were in a rush, so the roofer should pay 90% of the cost of rectification. No roofer working in a competent manner, would install a roof obviously draining the wrong way. It's not a minor error, it's a major fault.