No Water after 4 plumber visits please help!!!

[Gasguru]

Just to add that any work on these cylinders must be undertaken by a G3 licenced installer due to the extra dangers of unvented cylinders.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Just a quickie- you say you have electric radiators? As in directly wired, no water circulating etc etc. Were they switched on and operating when you were seeing your 60kwH energy consumption?
Another thought- is this a newish build? Is there a blending valve under the sink or bath or anywhere else? Have you tried running a hot tap and feeling the cylinder output pipe while the hot is running?

 

[Archie Faulks]

Thanks all. I turned off the main colds water left for an hour with immersion heaters on and, lo and behold, had my first piping hot shower in the new flat which was a nice feeling. This at least rules out the Cylinder and Immersions as the issue. There must be a fault in the installation and cold water is getting into the cylinder/hot water pipes diluting the flow. What would you recommend the best step moving forward should be? Get a plumber in to test all the piping and/or reinstall the cylinder using the correct and, as you said Gasguru, legal method.
The internet is a wonderful thing, had 4 different plumbers around and they couldn't help me at all within 3 hours posting this have got further than i have done in 2 months, really appreciate you all for your answers.
Best,
Archie

 

[Archie Faulks]

Is water running through the tundish ( black plastic thing on copper pipes ,to the right of the immersion heaters ) ?
If not , turn off your mains cold water stopcock and leave off for an hour ,whilst immersion heater is on. After 1 hour turn on the stopcock and Tel us if you now have hotter water from taps.

It's almost certainly an illegal installation and Gledhill have washed their hands of it.
The wiring is very poor...cable clamp not utilised, reversed polarity, huge lengths of free cable etc
That inlet set doesn't seem to match any Gledhill parts I can find on the web...it looks very old.
The blue expansion relief valve should be plumbed in BEFORE the tundish but since they've fitted the assembly too low they've bodged it in.
There's no balanced cold feed to the taps/outlets...that can be an issue when the cold pressures is much higher.
The safety discharge pipework on the left near the floor should have a fall on it...where does that go and it it the correct size (it's not unusual to require 28mm pipework).
I find it odd that Gledhill have even agreed to take a look...whoever turned up were they just a recommendation from them?
As above turn off the valve below the inlet set and see what happens after a few hours of heating.

1. The black plastic piece inserted into the pipework coming out of the Temperature and Pressure Relief Valve (TPRV) is called a tun dish. Its purpose is to show if any water is escaping from the TPRV thus indicating a fault.
2. The piece of pipe below the tun dish is called the "D2" pipe, and should be a minimum of 300 mm long after the tun dish before any bends or fittings.
3. There is a combination valve fitted which controls the incoming cold water. This:
3a. Also has a pressure relief valve (PRV). This valve should be connected to the D2 pipe or another separate pipe fulfilling the same function. The connection should be before the first tun dish, or a separate tun dish should be used.
3b. As it is, you will not have visible evidence if the combination valve's PRV operating.
3c. Because the combination valve has not been fitted above the level of the top of the cylinder, maintenance of the valve, which should be annual, will partial drain down of the cylinder.
4. The immersion heaters have two thermostats:
4a. The one with a dial which you use to set the temperature.
4b. An overheat thermostat, which turns the power off if the water overheats. This has to be reset by pressing in the red button which appears to be under the main thermostat setting disc. Your second immersion photograph shows this button.
5. Check that both overheat thermostat buttons have been reset.
6. I would also suggest you set the main thermostats to "5" rather than maximum, in case they are allowing the immersions to heat locally to a temperature at which they trigger the overheat thermostats.
7. Beyond that, as others have said, water is running away somewhere.
8. If all else fails, I'd be tempted to fit a full bore lever valve in the hot water outlet. Close it, turn the heaters on, and if the water then heats its an issue elsewhere in your water system. Possibly a mixer tap feeding cold back into the hot.

This was done by a qualified electrician?
What else did he do?

Looks shocking.
I'd be checking right back to the feed supplying the two switches.
And everything else.

Having the meter spin with little product (heat) is very weird. Is it an old disk meter?
@electricians, is this a phasing thing from cross wiring two resistive AC loads? (dunno)

Thanks all. I turned off the main colds water left for an hour with immersion heaters on and, lo and behold, had my first piping hot shower in the new flat which was a nice feeling. This at least rules out the Cylinder and Immersions as the issue. There must be a fault in the installation and cold water is getting into the cylinder/hot water pipes diluting the flow. What would you recommend the best step moving forward should be? Get a plumber in to test all the piping and/or reinstall the cylinder using the correct and, as you said Gasguru, legal method.
The internet is a wonderful thing, had 4 different plumbers around and they couldn't help me at all within 3 hours posting this have got further than i have done in 2 months, really appreciate you all for your answers.
Best,
Archie

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...isits-please-help.584168/page-2#ixzz7H27sucCd

 

[oldbutnotdead]

So with cold supply off, cylinder temperature gets usable and delivered hot water is also usable. You can ignore my q about blending valve and probably ignore the question about the electric rads.
Presumably you had to turn the cold back on to have your shower?
So with cold water off the cylinder heats up properly. Cold water on- it doesn't. So there is water constantly leaving your unvented cylinder by some route and taking the heat with it. Do you have a water meter? If yes, turn cold supply on, immersion heaters off, all taps off, read the meter, read it an hour later- it shouldn't have moved. If it hasn't moved then turn the heaters on, again don't use any water, read the meter after another hour. It still shouldn't have moved.

 

[terryplumb]

What I want to know is ,who is getting the basket of muffins ?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Has the outlet pipe from the cylinder been traced? I have to wonder if your cylinder is feeding another flat.

Do you have a Water Meter? If so, make sure everything in your flat is off, and check the meter for movement on the dials.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Turn off your water when you go to work and see what flat complains of no water.



Andy

 

[terryplumb]

Is the water in your toilet cistern hot by any chance ?

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Hi, One other thing I've noticed is that the immersion heaters are rated at 16 amps each, but they are feed from switched fused spurs, that can only accommodate a 13 amp fuse. Surly a 20 amp switch should be used, and directly wired back to your consumer unit.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi, One other thing I've noticed is that the immersion heaters are rated at 16 amps each, but they are feed from switched fused spurs, that can only accommodate a 13 amp fuse. Surly a 20 amp switch should be used, and directly wired back to your consumer unit.

Hi,

The 16A, 250V is the switching rating of the thermostat - so no need to worry!
The element itself is rated at 3kW, so acceptable on an FCU!

EDIT:
Just for info, max set temp 65C, safety temp 75C.
https://www.heatrodshop.com/product/thermowatt-rts-3-181316-red-dial

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Whoops, well spotted, thanks

 

[JohnD]

What I want to know is ,who is getting the basket of muffins ?

Me

 

[JohnD]

There must be a fault in the installation and cold water is getting into the cylinder/hot water pipes diluting the flow.

No, the fault is not that cold water is "getting in" because your cylinder is not swelling up like an infinite balloon.

The fault is that hot water is getting out.

All the supply is doing is topping up the cylinder to keep it full, which is correct.

 

[diynoob]

Turn off the cold mains again and turn on the immersion. Then trace the hot water pipe from the cylinder to see where the hot water is going. As terryplumb said, check if there's hot water in the toilet cisterns.