Nuclear Waste

The only thing on the drawing board remotely like a supersonic mag lev is a train that runs in a vacuum tube under the Atlantic Ocean from Paris to New York. The heat generated and the power required would rule out any free running in the atmosphere vehicle. No element on Earth can withstand the heat generated at 24,000 mph - it would simply vapourise. By the time the space shuttle reaches the thicker atmosphere its speed is down to hundreds, not thousands, of mph.



joe
 
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so does that mean the radioactive material needn't travel as far as the sun, it could vapourise harmlessly in the atmosphere? :)
 
kendor said:
so does that mean the radioactive material needn't travel as far as the sun, it could vapourise harmlessly in the atmosphere? :)


Yup. Just like Chernobel.


joe
 
Joe...24000mph???

The Escape Velocity of Earth is somewhat belwo this at 17500mph...and to achive escape velocity does not mean travelling at that speed in the lower atmosphere.

I would also point out that The Germans and the Japanese have both built working supersonic MagLev trains, however these are pure research vehicles.

The current speed record for the Japanese units is 1046km/hr (648.7mph), however they plan to exceed 1500km/hr (930mph) by the middle of 2006.
 
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Big_Spark said:
Joe...24000mph???

The Escape Velocity of Earth is somewhat belwo this at 17500mph...and to achive escape velocity does not mean travelling at that speed in the lower atmosphere.

I would also point out that The Germans and the Japanese have both built working supersonic MagLev trains, however these are pure research vehicles.

The current speed record for the Japanese units is 1046km/hr (648.7mph), however they plan to exceed 1500km/hr (930mph) by the middle of 2006.
Not sure about that BS i was given to understand that escape velocity was achieved at 7 miles a second which equated to 25,000 MPH? as i can't be arsed to work it out mathmatically i could be wrong?
 
Kendor, On the surface of the Earth the escape velocity is about 11.2 kilometres per second. However, at 9000 km altitude in "space", it is slightly less than 7.1 km/s.

For a body rotating about its axis the escape velocity with respect to the surface does depend on direction. E.g., for the Earth the rotational velocity is 465 m/s to the east at the equator, and the escape velocity to the east, with respect to the Earth's surface, is ca. 10.7 km/s.

My earlier post was a bit misleading..I inadvertantly posted the orbital velocity of the planet: ie: the minimum velocity required to achieve a stable orbit about Earth, but this would be degradable.

To escape the Earth/Moon system to reach interplanetary space you need to achieve 23882.4mph.

I had a blond moment earlier, apologies for the confusion.

However you would not need to achieve escape velocity in the atmosphere, you would only need to achieve about 7500mph to ensure enough momentum existed to clear the atmosphere. Without an extra push the craft would re-enter the atmosphere, so you install a chemical or electric rocket motor to give the extra kick to clear the Earth/Moon system.
 
Why bother with the complication of a maglev? Railguns are quick, simple and easy. A gauss gun would give you more reliability, but isn't as efficient and let's face it, when throwing a few tonnes into space electrically you want efficiency!

Railguns have been demonstrated with muzzle velocities in the 15 kilometres per second upwards bracket. Wikipedia even reckons on 20kps!

Of course, to do this with a big mass would take a LOT of energy.

The two big engineering issues I see are

1) Power source: a rocket has several minutes and hundreds of kilometres to accelerate up to orbital velocity. Due to the size constraints of a ground-based solution, any means where the propulsion system is on the ground would have a fraction of a second to boost the projectile up to this speed. LOTS of power.

2) accelerative loadings. if you want to accelerate from 0-24000 mph in a fraction of a second, you will be applying a LOT of g's to the projectile. You tell an electronic engineer to design electronics to withstand thousands of g, and once he's slapped you for being delirious he'll tell you to naff off.

If the rail is 1km long, and you want to go from 0 up to 11km per second, accelerating at a constant rate, that will give you a time of 0.182 seconds, and an acceleration of about 6200g.

You also have other issues such as air density: rockets only give it real welly in the thinner air, but with our case you will be screaming through the thick sea-level atmosphere. You need to design your projectile to withstand extreme heat-cycling without failure. Probably simpler than designing an Ariane, but still hard.

Oh, and I haven't taken into account the air resistance: escape velocity doesn't account for air resistance! I'm not even going to attempt to calculate that, but I think a wet finger value would be to launch at 20-30km per second. :eek:

Then you would have some interesting difficulties with the Outer Space Treaty, you would have to prove the system could not be used for offensive purposes, nor would it be open to subversion to such purposes (so the guidance system could not be reprogrammable for instance, to miss the sun, swing round and hit the earth).
 
johnny_t said:
Fire it into space and steer it towards the sun :D

In fact, we may have found the solution to just about everything here...
Yup - we could even fire joe-90 into space and steer him towards the sun :evil:
 
Softus said:
johnny_t said:
Fire it into space and steer it towards the sun :D

In fact, we may have found the solution to just about everything here...
Yup - we could even fire joe-90 into space and steer him towards the sun :evil:

Not a good idea Softus..he would argue with it and it would probably turn off just to annoy him and prove a point!! :LOL:
 
AdamW said:
If the rail is 1km long, and you want to go from 0 up to 11km per second, accelerating at a constant rate, that will give you a time of 0.182 seconds, and an acceleration of about 6200g.

Have you been reading R. Heinlein? (The Moon is a Harsh Mistres 1966) :D :D
 
couldnt we power it with nuclear waste? no hang on then we wouldnt need to send it up as we wouldnt have any, but if we didnt send it then we would have some.........no hang on let me think about this again :LOL:
 
Big_Spark said:
Kendor, On the surface of the Earth the escape velocity is about 11.2 kilometres per second. However, at 9000 km altitude in "space", it is slightly less than 7.1 km/s.

For a body rotating about its axis the escape velocity with respect to the surface does depend on direction. E.g., for the Earth the rotational velocity is 465 m/s to the east at the equator, and the escape velocity to the east, with respect to the Earth's surface, is ca. 10.7 km/s.

My earlier post was a bit misleading..I inadvertantly posted the orbital velocity of the planet: ie: the minimum velocity required to achieve a stable orbit about Earth, but this would be degradable.

To escape the Earth/Moon system to reach interplanetary space you need to achieve 23882.4mph.

I had a blond moment earlier, apologies for the confusion.

However you would not need to achieve escape velocity in the atmosphere, you would only need to achieve about 7500mph to ensure enough momentum existed to clear the atmosphere. Without an extra push the craft would re-enter the atmosphere, so you install a chemical or electric rocket motor to give the extra kick to clear the Earth/Moon system.
I remember hearing it on tv some time back but here's a comment from a Physics Instructor:


What is escape velocity?

Asked by: Michael Metzger

Answer

If you throw an object straight up, it will rise until the the negative acceleration of gravity stops it, then returns it to Earth. Gravity's force diminishes as distance from the center of the Earth increases, however. So if you can throw the object with enough initial upward velocity so that gravity's decreasing force can never quite slow it to a complete stop, its decreasing velocity can always be just high enough to overcome gravity's pull. The initial velocity needed to achieve that condition is called escape velocity.

From the surface of the Earth, escape velocity (ignoring air friction) is about 7 miles per second, or 25,000 miles per hour. Given that initial speed, an object needs no additional force applied to completely escape Earth's gravity.

Answered by: Paul Walorski, B.A. Physics, Part-time Physics Instructor

Link:http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae158.cfm
 
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