Oh No! Not again!

[D_Hailsham]

Much has been written on this Forum about the legality of DIY gas work and I don't want to start another argument; just point out a factor which may have been overlooked by some previous contributors.

At the start of The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) regulations 1998 it says:

The Secretary of State, in exercise of the powers conferred on him by ... the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 ... hereby makes the following Regulations"

So the GSUIR regulations are concerned with health and safety at work. This takes us back to the 1974 Act which says:

An Act to make further provision for securing the health, safety and welfare of persons at work, for protecting others against risks to health or safety in connection with the activities of persons at work

So it would seem that the main purpose of the GSIUR is to protect the customer from unqualified gas engineers, not to protect him from his own folly.

Just a thought.

 

[namsag]

Funny how usually we can get ten pages of sh~te on this subject but not this time even after over 100 views.... Strange.


Should this not be in the combustion chamber after all the public can read..

 

[bengasman]

...So the GSUIR regulations are concerned with health and safety at work. This takes us back to the 1974 Act which says:....

That relates to safe practices on work carried out; a house where only the boiler is changed, is still a building site in that respect and therefore work must be carried out safely. Think about safe soldering, working on water/electricity, no standing on chairs but use of stable (step)ladders and that sort of thing.
The legality of working with gas in itself is dealt with in the GSIUR, which does not supersede or overrule the other legislation.

 

[namsag]

DING DING round 1,000,301 Same old mis conceptions by rocket scientists

 

[Agile]

So it would seem that the main purpose of the GSIUR is to protect the customer from unqualified gas engineers, not to protect him from his own folly.

Just a thought.

I think that you are being a little over zealous there.

Included in the GSUIR for example is the requirement for a Landlord to have a gas safety certificate! Thats clearly for the protection of tenants from landlords!

Also the requirement that anyone working on gas should be competent is surely a strong protection for the DIYer as few will be competent if measured by the same standards required of RGIs.

In the various RTAs the main thrust is relating to vehicle DRIVERS to protect other drivers and pedestrians.

There is precious little about how pedestrians should behave themselves. Drunk and carelessly crossing pedestrians are the cause of many RTAs.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

That relates to safe practices on work carried out; a house where only the boiler is changed, is still a building site in that respect and therefore work must be carried out safely. Think about safe soldering, working on water/electricity, no standing on chairs but use of stable (step)ladders and that sort of thing.

I quite agree. The HSA makes it clear that the act does not just cover the duty of care which an employer has to his employees but also the duty of care which he has to others.

The legality of working with gas in itself is dealt with in the GSIUR, which does not supersede or overrule the other legislation.

I did not say it did.

Same old misconceptions

Which are?

Included in the GSUIR for example is the requirement for a Landlord to have a gas safety certificate! That's clearly for the protection of tenants from landlords!

Agreed, but it does not detract from my general argument.

Also the requirement that anyone working on gas should be competent is surely a strong protection for the DIYer as few will be competent if measured by the same standards required of RGIs.

I'm not sure how this protects the DIyer from his own mistakes.

Instead of just saying that you must be competent (3.1) and then having additional incomprehensible clauses about employers etc and "class of person" approved by HSE, why do the regulations not say outright that anybody working on gas must be CORGI registered? (This is similar to the situation now pertaining to electrical work in the home, where you can change a fuse, light bulb etc and do other minor tasks, but have to to employ a qualified electrician for the rest.)

The reason the Gas Regulations do not take such a simple approach is that the legal basis for issuing the regulations is the Health and Safety at Work Act, which does not cover anything which a private individual does in his own home. If it did, think of the fun the HSE inspectors might have in the typical home kitchen, which would not meet the standards demanded in commercial kitchens.

The rules on electrical work are a consequence of changes to the Building Regulations, which everyone has to comply with.

 

[Agile]

So you have successfully argued that the regulations affecting gas and electrical work in the home are a total shambles and the easiest solution would be to add gas work to the Building Regulations.

The RTA should also be amended to require TPFT insurance for cyclists and TP insurance and compulsory training for pedestrians.

Then the world would be a better ( regulated ) place!

Tony

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

It amazes me reading venom directed to competent DIYers, who are within the law, by registered gas installers. The law has been clearly stated on this forum. No one is interested in opinionated babble by people who think the law is something else.

The HSE has stated that DIY is not a focus area as the main concern is substandard work by unregistered operators and registered operators. DIY is not a cause for concern. The people on here should concentrate on unregistered operators who charge money for their poor skills and poor work by registered people. Get your own house in order first. Get quality work and service up instead of trying to gain more work by excluding people who the HSE view as not a problem.

 

[powell30]

Georgie boy....you sound like a stuck record.

Give it a rest please everyone. This has been done to death. More posts won't change viewpoints from whatever point you think correct.

 

[bengasman]

The law has been clearly stated on this forum. No one is interested in opinionated babble by people who think the law is something else...

At least a RGI has proven to be competent; that is more than you can say.

 

[Onetap]

At the start of The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) regulations 1998 it says:

The Secretary of State, in exercise of the powers conferred on him by ... the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 ... hereby makes the following Regulations"

So the GSUIR regulations are concerned with health and safety at work. This takes us back to the 1974 Act which says:

An Act to make further provision for securing the health, safety and welfare of persons at work, for protecting others against risks to health or safety in connection with the activities of persons at work

Good point, Mr. Hailsham, I hadn't realized that.

Similarly, I seem to recall that the legionella legislation (L8 Approved Code of Practice, etc.,) is also based on the Health and Safety at Work Acts and so can only be applied to commercial premises where the owner/operator/tenant/manager has a duty of care towards employees and the public.

The legionella legislations cannot be applied to dwellings, although you could (and I'm sure many people do) be the cause of severe illness in yourself and your family by having a minging water system in your own home.

I think that you are being a little over zealous there.

Included in the GSUIR for example is the requirement for a Landlord to have a gas safety certificate! Thats clearly for the protection of tenants from landlords!

Since letting property is the business/work of the Landlords, the Health and Safety at Work Acts apply (to both the gas and water systems).

 

[Agile]

Since letting property is the business/work of the Landlords, the Health and Safety at Work Acts apply (to both the gas and water systems).

Virtually all the laws relating to letting property is contained in the various L&T acts enacted following the law of Property Act 1925. Just nothing specific to gas though!

Tony

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

The law has been clearly stated on this forum. No one is interested in opinionated babble by people who think the law is something else...

At least a RGI has proven to be competent; that is more than you can say.

Can't you read properly? Competence is not determined by a pierces of paper, it is by why what you do. Also the HSE are focused on INCOMPETENT registered people, than a competent DIYer.

As I wrote, and this applies to your opinionated babble...The law has been clearly stated on this forum. No one is interested in opinionated babble by people who think the law is something else...

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

Since letting property is the business/work of the Landlords, the Health and Safety at Work Acts apply (to both the gas and water systems).

Are you saying that a rented property must have the stored water at minimum of 60C and a blending valve on the DHW outlet, to eliminate Legionella?

 

[powell30]

Blending valves don't eliminate legionella. Which is not i am sure what you intended your sentence to mean

Water at 60 degrees does. And building regs changes will soon mean new/altered installations (including domestic) will require blending valves on all hot tap outlets.....Wonder if the rquirement for them to be serviced regularly as do commercial ones do and if you will need to be competant (oh no, said that word again)......